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Luke
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Luke Thu May 09, 2013 12:27 pm

ZeoDefender wrote:That's weird. I don't know how people can do that. I'm sitting on my ass, drinking some pepsi, and pushing some buttons on a controller. I'm not saving the world and destroying an evil empire. I think that's why I've always disliked the buzzword "immersion" so much. It doesn't exist for me.


It wains with age and possibly intelligence (no offense to people who pretend they are an imaginable video game character). As a kid playing Ninja Gaiden, my brain went nuts with thoughts of "This is incredible! I am a Ninja! I need a powerup or... I... could... DIE!"

Still love the game, but now it is more like "Jump, slash, jump, slash, get that powerup, don't get that one it's only a throwing star, jump, slash, next level...etc".

When you break it down to brass tacks, (Biz Markie dance is optional) immersion is just one of thousands of words that has taken a new meaning. Immersion isn't really about placing yourself in the game, rather keeping a keen focus on the game. You could immerse yourself in math, art, reading, gymnastics, etc.

Literal definition aside, I have played games where I am invested in a few video game characters to the point where I was protective of the guy on the television screen.
ICO and SOTC (I know, I know, very cliche') are two games where I don't want to see any harm come to any lead character. And although I am not a fan of cats, I made it a point to feed (and pet) that kitten in Shenmue.
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Ack
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Ack Thu May 09, 2013 12:33 pm

I find immersion works much better if I feel that the world is a place one can get lost in. And I must have the perspective of a person, not a third-party entity controlling things from offscreen, so it only happens with me in a first person view. Half-Life may not always pull that off, but games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. do. And admittedly it does do interaction through text. But sitting still, watching the grass move in the wind, seeing distant packs of dogs attack a stray bandit, searching for anomolies which could lead to a nasty certain death...yeah, I get pretty immersed.
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Stark
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Stark Thu May 09, 2013 12:47 pm

Ack wrote:I find immersion works much better if I feel that the world is a place one can get lost in. And I must have the perspective of a person, not a third-party entity controlling things from offscreen, so it only happens with me in a first person view. Half-Life may not always pull that off, but games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. do. And admittedly it does do interaction through text. But sitting still, watching the grass move in the wind, seeing distant packs of dogs attack a stray bandit, searching for anomolies which could lead to a nasty certain death...yeah, I get pretty immersed.

I would argue one of the things that makes S.T.A.L.K.E.R. an immersive game, is it's use of diegetic sound and visual cues like those you mention above and not whether the protagonist is silent or not.
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Ack
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Ack Thu May 09, 2013 12:59 pm

Stark wrote:
Ack wrote:I find immersion works much better if I feel that the world is a place one can get lost in. And I must have the perspective of a person, not a third-party entity controlling things from offscreen, so it only happens with me in a first person view. Half-Life may not always pull that off, but games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. do. And admittedly it does do interaction through text. But sitting still, watching the grass move in the wind, seeing distant packs of dogs attack a stray bandit, searching for anomolies which could lead to a nasty certain death...yeah, I get pretty immersed.

I would argue one of the things that makes S.T.A.L.K.E.R. an immersive game, is it's use of diegetic sound and visual cues like those you mention above and not whether the protagonist is silent or not.


Maybe, but I don't necessarily feel immersed in games that do, like Duke Nukem 3D for instance. It has some very large, entertaining levels that help to feel like an actual world, but Duke's constant quotes keep me from feeling like I'm in the world. Instead I'm just playing a caricature, viewing the world through his eyes. It's like I'm being John Malkovich if he were in Last Action Hero.
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Krejlooc
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Krejlooc Thu May 09, 2013 1:44 pm

I generally agree with the conversation about "immersion" not being all that immersive. I'm pretty good at dissecting media with a discerning eye, and I never really feel like I am the character I'm controller. luckily, that doesn't hamper my ability to empathize or gain excitement by proxy - when my character is in danger, my heart is racing. not because I'm in danger, but because I've become emotionally invested in the character I'm watching. It's the same way I can weep at a touching film, or feel sad when a show ends and I don't get to see any more wacky adventures of characters I've come to "know" through story and character development.

For this reason, horror games rarely scare me. I might get started by something flashing on screen, but the mood and tension never get to me. There's too much disconnect between me, the character, and the thick pane of glass separating us via my TV.

That said, I think all this debate about immersion is going to get flipped on its ear once virtual reality gets big. Look at these two survival horror games that support motion controls and VR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQgVj9tBQG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWDQN_X5b-M

Imagining experiencing those two videos, not from the comfort of my chair watching a screen 10 feet away from me, but with that world all around me, pressed up to my eyeballs, inescapable by merely glancing my eyes away... it feels transformative. The Forest in particular sounds incredible, because the developers claim it's not a "game" per-say, but rather a virtual reality experience that is meant to be engaging. You're not playing, you're simulating what being stranded in a dense forest with bizare shit going on would be like. As such, there is supposed to be little to no combat, with the focus being on exploring (with the hook being that you're going to want to explore this huge, richly detailed world in first person via VR).
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Krejlooc
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Krejlooc Thu May 09, 2013 1:49 pm

I can't find video of it, but that spacewalk demo is also supposed to be incredibly immersive. Something about being able to turn your head and seeing the space visor in front of you completes the illusion, or so I'm told.

I'll test all this crap out when my OR actually arrives.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by ApolloBoy Thu May 09, 2013 3:13 pm

Happiness is an Atari 5200 with a rebuilt controller. Seriously, I've been getting back into collecting for my pre-crash systems and the 5200 is becoming one of my favorite consoles. The controllers aren't that big of a deal to fix and when they work, they actually work surprisingly well.

Here's some of my opinions that'd probably be considered unpopular:

-I found the Dreamcast to be a fairly boring console and I have no real inclination to pick one up again.
-I loathe modern gaming and aside from maybe the Wii and DS, have no intention of ever buying a modern console. That goes for modern PC gaming too.
-Fester's Quest is actually a fairly decent game and I've beaten it twice so far.
-I'd rather have a Neo Geo AES with MVS converter than a CMVS.
-I have no interest in online gaming.
-I would take a real DOS PC any day over DOSBox.
-I love the original Metroid and I think not having a map adds to the fun of the game.
-Mega Man 7 and 8 are fine sequels and I don't have a problem with any of the original series MM games (except for Mega Man's Soccer which is a different deal)
-The Jaguar controller is actually fairly comfortable and nothing like it's usually made out to be.
-I have no real problems with the N64 controller and find it rather comfortable.
-I only keep a GameCube around just for the Game Boy Player.
-The VIC-20 doesn't get enough respect.
-On the subject of modern gaming, I also hate the culture that goes with it.
Own: 2600, 2DS, 2DS XL, 360 S, 5200, 7800, 800, 800XL, AES, Amiga 600, C64, C64C, CV, DC, Duo-R, GB, GBA, GBA SP, GBC, GBP, Genesis 2, GG, JP SMS, Lynx, Mark III, Mega CD II, MD, MSX2+, N64, NES, NES top loader, Nomad, PCE, PSX, PS2, RetroUSB AVS, SAT, SFC, SG-1000 II, SMS, SNES mini, Switch, TE, Twin Fami, VIC-20, Wii, XEGS
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Krejlooc
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Krejlooc Thu May 09, 2013 3:48 pm

ApolloBoy wrote:-The Jaguar controller is actually fairly comfortable and nothing like it's usually made out to be.


I actually think the Jaguar controller is pretty bad overall, but not for really any of the reasons people claim it's bad. That is to say that the size and shape of the controller isn't an issue at all, and the keypad is actually a pretty awesome addition. I have problems with the button placement, the mushiness of the d-pad and buttons, and the lack of throw on any of the face buttons.

All those problems, incidentally, were fixed on the Pro Controller. Have you used a pro controller? Or a Falcon controller, which is like a Jag pad, except with a higher build quality? If you enjoy the Jag pad, try out either of those and I guarantee you'll love them.
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o.pwuaioc
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by o.pwuaioc Thu May 09, 2013 3:51 pm

ApolloBoy, you're speaking my mind!
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Ack
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Ack Thu May 09, 2013 4:05 pm

o.pwuaioc wrote:ApolloBoy, you're speaking my mind!


You like Fester's Quest?
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