Alrighty folks. I'm getting awfully tired, and too old, to deal with the headache of physical everything. When I last checked in on emulation around 10 years ago, I found it lacking. Seems still from a cursory glance that there are lag issues. What's currently the best way to play emulated games in 2024?
I have a couple CRTs still, consoles out the wazoo (so maybe just flash carts?), and all the games I could want except whatever has come out new, so I'm not terribly worried about pirating things (although my Japanese is still lacking enough that the J only games on the Saturn are still out of reach). I do however want to play both Japanese and US games from the 2600 to the PS2, which preference on cart-based systems.
What are people doing these days that really just works, that keeps lag low, and that looks good? Is a PC still the best option? Console + permanently-inserted flash carts?
Emulation 2024
Re: Emulation 2024
It's been a long while since I noticed any lag on any retro-game using any of the recommended emulators for any system of even sub-par hardware.
The very best you can get for lag is enabling RetroArch's "Run-ahead" feature. It pre-renders images for every possible controller input you could press. This makes it possible for games to have less lag than any console ever had because consoles first need to detect input, then they have to render a frame of video before the console can send it to video output. With run-ahead, the emulator already has a rendered image buffered in the video card, and the instant an input is entered, the frame is displayed. It's technically negative-lag!
You can achieve cycle-accurate perfection by getting a MiSTer, because they aren't actually emulation, but an accurate recreation of the hardware running on FPGA with your choice of controllers and video output format. My friend has ne and it's pretty cool. Booting it up on a 1084 Amiga monitor to run old computer software is pretty sweet.
I prefer to use OG consoles with flashcarts through a CRT or latest-best scaler, but that's mostly because I can. It's quite expensive, and not at all necessary for game enjoyment. It is actually very fidgety and needlessly complicated to mod the consoles so they look anything like an emulator can.
My second choice is an old-ish PC with an RGB capable (old) video-card hacked to output 15khz and a host of minimal-lag emulators that can be configured to output the console's original frame-rate and video mode. I built some WIP arcade machines that perfectly display emulated games on CRTs with very cheap parts throughout. If only wood and vinyl-wrap was cheap.
Unless you're really particular about these things, you can just pair your favorite console's controller to your computer, and grab the latest build of any console's emulator off the Emulation General Wiki. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to get a retro console emulator up and running, then load a rom file to get playing. I still think rendering games at double-resolution with 50% scanlines and bilinear scaling is just fine looking.
Even a few-years-old Android streaming dongle with ROMs plugged into an LCD that's set to game-mode and a cheap new Bluetooth controller is pretty decent.
I'd never recommend any of those official Mini systems for multi-system emulation. Hacked consoles can be okay - I hear a Xbox 1 does really well, and I hear a modded Switch turns into a pretty nice handheld emulator.
The very best you can get for lag is enabling RetroArch's "Run-ahead" feature. It pre-renders images for every possible controller input you could press. This makes it possible for games to have less lag than any console ever had because consoles first need to detect input, then they have to render a frame of video before the console can send it to video output. With run-ahead, the emulator already has a rendered image buffered in the video card, and the instant an input is entered, the frame is displayed. It's technically negative-lag!
You can achieve cycle-accurate perfection by getting a MiSTer, because they aren't actually emulation, but an accurate recreation of the hardware running on FPGA with your choice of controllers and video output format. My friend has ne and it's pretty cool. Booting it up on a 1084 Amiga monitor to run old computer software is pretty sweet.
I prefer to use OG consoles with flashcarts through a CRT or latest-best scaler, but that's mostly because I can. It's quite expensive, and not at all necessary for game enjoyment. It is actually very fidgety and needlessly complicated to mod the consoles so they look anything like an emulator can.
My second choice is an old-ish PC with an RGB capable (old) video-card hacked to output 15khz and a host of minimal-lag emulators that can be configured to output the console's original frame-rate and video mode. I built some WIP arcade machines that perfectly display emulated games on CRTs with very cheap parts throughout. If only wood and vinyl-wrap was cheap.
Unless you're really particular about these things, you can just pair your favorite console's controller to your computer, and grab the latest build of any console's emulator off the Emulation General Wiki. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to get a retro console emulator up and running, then load a rom file to get playing. I still think rendering games at double-resolution with 50% scanlines and bilinear scaling is just fine looking.
Even a few-years-old Android streaming dongle with ROMs plugged into an LCD that's set to game-mode and a cheap new Bluetooth controller is pretty decent.
I'd never recommend any of those official Mini systems for multi-system emulation. Hacked consoles can be okay - I hear a Xbox 1 does really well, and I hear a modded Switch turns into a pretty nice handheld emulator.
-
Raging Justice
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 1323
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 2:11 pm
Re: Emulation 2024
Everyone uses Retroarch these days. I don't like it because I'd rather have one dedicated emulator for one system. It's just simpler to me than downloading a billion cores and assets for Retroarch and then having to go through all these menus to find whatever console you want to emulate.
I pretty much do all my emulation on handhelds. Honestly, most of my gaming in general these days is on handhelds
The 3ds does GBA games perfectly, and if you have the New Nintendo 3ds (the last new iteration of the system) it does SNES games extremely well. You can either inject the roms in the existing Nintendo emulator or use SNES9x. The New Nintendo 3ds can even handle some PS 1 games with the right settings, but you'd be better off with a hacked Vita, which also does PSP games really well, obviously. I think 8-bit and 16-bit games run well on pretty much everything these days, except maybe something like Starfox.
The Switch can supposedly handle some of the more powerful consoles, especially if you run the android operating system, which is now possible even on the Oled model. I hear android is really the best option. With it, you can do Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and even some N64 games. I'm still kind of a newb, so I haven't really figured out how to run android on my modded Switch yet. I'm been thoroughly enjoying my modded 3ds and modded Swtich for several months now, but there are still things I don't fully understand how to do and sometimes when you search online for info you end up reading stuff from people who sound to me like they are talking in a foreign language
Emulation is big on the handheld scene. There's so many companies putting out handheld systems now, and they all have fairly good emulation abilities.
I pretty much do all my emulation on handhelds. Honestly, most of my gaming in general these days is on handhelds
The 3ds does GBA games perfectly, and if you have the New Nintendo 3ds (the last new iteration of the system) it does SNES games extremely well. You can either inject the roms in the existing Nintendo emulator or use SNES9x. The New Nintendo 3ds can even handle some PS 1 games with the right settings, but you'd be better off with a hacked Vita, which also does PSP games really well, obviously. I think 8-bit and 16-bit games run well on pretty much everything these days, except maybe something like Starfox.
The Switch can supposedly handle some of the more powerful consoles, especially if you run the android operating system, which is now possible even on the Oled model. I hear android is really the best option. With it, you can do Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and even some N64 games. I'm still kind of a newb, so I haven't really figured out how to run android on my modded Switch yet. I'm been thoroughly enjoying my modded 3ds and modded Swtich for several months now, but there are still things I don't fully understand how to do and sometimes when you search online for info you end up reading stuff from people who sound to me like they are talking in a foreign language
Emulation is big on the handheld scene. There's so many companies putting out handheld systems now, and they all have fairly good emulation abilities.
Re: Emulation 2024
I use a computer nowadays. No more dragging out consoles and cables for me.
I wish Retroarch had a better interface. I use it for N64 but other than that it seems too much trouble to learn when standalone emulators are easier to navigate.
Here are the emulators I find success with:
The only time I notice lag is when I try to push some PS2 games up to 1080p. But the computer I use for emulation is kind of crappy so there's that. I know PS3 emulation is a thing now (and is getting better); I don't know enough about it to make any recommendations.
I wish Retroarch had a better interface. I use it for N64 but other than that it seems too much trouble to learn when standalone emulators are easier to navigate.
Here are the emulators I find success with:
The only time I notice lag is when I try to push some PS2 games up to 1080p. But the computer I use for emulation is kind of crappy so there's that. I know PS3 emulation is a thing now (and is getting better); I don't know enough about it to make any recommendations.
Re: Emulation 2024
Lag is still an issue for mini consoles, official retro collections, and many of those Android handhelds, unfortunately
Dope Pope on a Rope
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
Re: Emulation 2024
What exactly is the problem you're looking to solve?
Is it owning a large physical game collection? The space that takes up? Switching games all of the time? Because if that's your only issue, then I would strongly urge you to keep your CRT and consoles and move to flash carts. You could also look into getting ODEs for disc based consoles, which are like flash cart equivalents.
If the problem is owning many consoles, and finding ways to hook them all up, and the space they take up, etc, then emulation is something to look into. The MiSTer would my suggestion as well. You can get an analog output board for the MiSTer that would allow you to still use a CRT.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the way retro games look on LCD or other modern displays. But if you choose to move to emulation, that is almost certainly the type of screen you would be using. There are filters and such to make things look more like CRT, but nothing is a replacement for an actual CRT in my opinion. The MiSTer will be a somewhat expensive investment, while emulation is mostly free (assuming you would use hardware that you already own, like a PC).
Is it owning a large physical game collection? The space that takes up? Switching games all of the time? Because if that's your only issue, then I would strongly urge you to keep your CRT and consoles and move to flash carts. You could also look into getting ODEs for disc based consoles, which are like flash cart equivalents.
If the problem is owning many consoles, and finding ways to hook them all up, and the space they take up, etc, then emulation is something to look into. The MiSTer would my suggestion as well. You can get an analog output board for the MiSTer that would allow you to still use a CRT.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the way retro games look on LCD or other modern displays. But if you choose to move to emulation, that is almost certainly the type of screen you would be using. There are filters and such to make things look more like CRT, but nothing is a replacement for an actual CRT in my opinion. The MiSTer will be a somewhat expensive investment, while emulation is mostly free (assuming you would use hardware that you already own, like a PC).
Re: Emulation 2024
For 8 and 16-bit consoles the filters on the Analog Pocket reportedly come damn close.
Dope Pope on a Rope
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
Re: Emulation 2024
Ziggy587 wrote:What exactly is the problem you're looking to solve?
Is it owning a large physical game collection? The space that takes up? Switching games all of the time?
A little bit of it all. I think it would be awfully nice to save some space and just turn on a game by booting it up. I'm also less of a stickler about save states as I used to be (cue Roger Murtaugh's catchphrase).
I also think it's a shame so much of this stuff is gathering dust these days, when maybe someone else could make better use of it.
However, I don't love lag, since I mostly play action games, and ideally I'd love to keep the CRT to play light gun games. The rest is variable.
I also made this less specifically for me and more about what the state of non-traditional play is these days.
Re: Emulation 2024
I absolutely hate RetroArch's interface. On consoles and SBCs turned into emulator machines it's the right choice, but in those cases it has been modified and pre-configured, so there's no need to make it through it's nested menus using only the controller interface except for top level/basic settings. Using it on a desktop computer is really crap. Just setting up a new controller is so painful. Just like Mednafen, I could configure the settings by opening the configuration file in notepad and manually changing options, but for controller mapping, that usually involves looking up hex values for input buttons.
I remember disliking BSNES for some of the same reasons - bad interface and some issue with "proper" ROMs etc. but I recently found out that after being renamed Higan because it went multi-system, it got further modified/forked and was renamed Ares. It's now all open-source and being worked on a lot. It actually has a user-friendly interface.
https://ares-emu.net/
Ares has the usual drop-down menus, and intuitive configuration dialog windows. It's also now the most accurate emulator for Windows for some systems.
Ares supports Rewind for those that like that option, as well as Run-ahead to remove one frame of lag in exchange for twice the system resources. It also has shader-loading so you can get impressive CRT and LCD filters running over top of your games for a visually accurate/enhanced experience.
One thing I do for all Windows emulators, after initial setup, I associate each console's filename extension with the correct emulator program, and have every emulator start in full-screen mode. I also map the ESC key on the keyboard to exit the emulator so the experience is the same for each system.
Pick a game, and you're playing - ESC to quit.
Unfortunately, with Ares, there's no saved configuration to start in full screen, so I had to modify the associations in Windows. I used a tool called File Types Manager by Nirsoft to change the command line to pass the fullscreen option for each launch.
"C:\Program Files\Ares\ares.exe" "--fullscreen" "%1"
If I used shaders, I'd be assigning a specific one for each system here as well. The DMG Game Boy ones are very cool.
I've never felt the need to have an emulator front-end except on my arcade cabinets as their controls kind-of need it, but I've seen some people installing Hyperspin with all the resource packs so every game has cover-art, screenshots, gameplay video, synopsis, manuals, and cheats available while navigating through the games with a controller. The one thing that I liked about that is the ability to group games by genre - shmups, platformers, RPGs etc.
Having a console-like experience and removing the windows interface from your gaming can be worthwhile to set-up. I hear it's pretty easy with some of the mature frontends - auto-detecting your emulators and having the right command-line options, recognizing all your ROMs & downloading all the metadata if they are named correctly/run through a renamer with the latest .dat etc.
I remember disliking BSNES for some of the same reasons - bad interface and some issue with "proper" ROMs etc. but I recently found out that after being renamed Higan because it went multi-system, it got further modified/forked and was renamed Ares. It's now all open-source and being worked on a lot. It actually has a user-friendly interface.
https://ares-emu.net/
Ares has the usual drop-down menus, and intuitive configuration dialog windows. It's also now the most accurate emulator for Windows for some systems.
Ares supports Rewind for those that like that option, as well as Run-ahead to remove one frame of lag in exchange for twice the system resources. It also has shader-loading so you can get impressive CRT and LCD filters running over top of your games for a visually accurate/enhanced experience.
One thing I do for all Windows emulators, after initial setup, I associate each console's filename extension with the correct emulator program, and have every emulator start in full-screen mode. I also map the ESC key on the keyboard to exit the emulator so the experience is the same for each system.
Pick a game, and you're playing - ESC to quit.
Unfortunately, with Ares, there's no saved configuration to start in full screen, so I had to modify the associations in Windows. I used a tool called File Types Manager by Nirsoft to change the command line to pass the fullscreen option for each launch.
"C:\Program Files\Ares\ares.exe" "--fullscreen" "%1"
If I used shaders, I'd be assigning a specific one for each system here as well. The DMG Game Boy ones are very cool.
I've never felt the need to have an emulator front-end except on my arcade cabinets as their controls kind-of need it, but I've seen some people installing Hyperspin with all the resource packs so every game has cover-art, screenshots, gameplay video, synopsis, manuals, and cheats available while navigating through the games with a controller. The one thing that I liked about that is the ability to group games by genre - shmups, platformers, RPGs etc.
Having a console-like experience and removing the windows interface from your gaming can be worthwhile to set-up. I hear it's pretty easy with some of the mature frontends - auto-detecting your emulators and having the right command-line options, recognizing all your ROMs & downloading all the metadata if they are named correctly/run through a renamer with the latest .dat etc.
Re: Emulation 2024
I am looking for "it just works" solution i am tired and too old for custom setups. I find retroarch horrendous to use. There was a Mac app called OpenEMU. It had everything. It was so intuitive I never had to look up anything on how to use it. Has great features like:
1-Quick load button
2-Quick save
3-RW/FF
4-controllers and everything smooth+stable
unfortunately the developers abandoned it for reasons I do not know why :**(
Any ideas for a replacement?
I wonder why no one makes a user friendly RetroArch interface
__
side question, any one really use those CRT filters? I do not think they make the game look like its on CRT tv.
1-Quick load button
2-Quick save
3-RW/FF
4-controllers and everything smooth+stable
unfortunately the developers abandoned it for reasons I do not know why :**(
Any ideas for a replacement?
I wonder why no one makes a user friendly RetroArch interface
__
side question, any one really use those CRT filters? I do not think they make the game look like its on CRT tv.