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RCBH928
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by RCBH928 Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:07 am

Which felt more next-gen for you? Saturn, PSX, or N64?

The PSX really looked from the future with the symbols for buttons instead of letters. I was amazed this thing could play audio CDs. Back then if you wanted to play Audio CDs you had to buy a dedicated system. Of course, there was the idea of the memory cards too and the controller with handles to grab. There is a lot more. The fact that you could play a game on a CD was amazing to me, back then I thought games can only be on cartridges kind of like the idea that a movie can only be on VHS (I didn't know about laserdisc).

That being said I can't deny the N64 4 ports, spaceship-looking 3-handles controller with analogue (was it the first analogue ever?), no loading, full 3D on a cart based system, the free roaming Mario64 (I haven't seen one before, even Crash Bandicoot was linear) with him jumping into paintings to enter levels was magical. I still remember the life like blue waters of Waver Racer. It couldn't look more real than that! Looks a lot better than Jet Moto.

isiolia wrote:
I think the biggest factor is simply the decline of third party support for Nintendo - N64 carts were expensive, .


marurun wrote: The N64 just isn't all that great at texturing, which is a real design quirk, though arguably a reasonable trade-off given that you could only pack so many textures into the cartridge ROMs and shared system RAM. It's not like the PS1 was throwing around high-res textures, either, if we're being honest. But it helped that it had dedicated VRAM.


Did they ever explain why they went the cartridge route? Wasn't it because it was harder to make bootlegs out of? The disadvantages seem a lot more than the advantages here. Not sure how it was percieved back in the mid-90s.

alienjesus wrote:Your Dreamcast, Wii U and whatever comparisons are flawed because the majority of Saturns were only sold in Japan. In terms of market penetration, Saturn had a far worse presence in the UK and the USA than the likes of the Dreamcast, the Master System or the Wii U. The Turbografx comparison feels far more appropriate, in that most of those were sold in Japan too. And as mentioned by people earlier in this thread, most people never saw a Turbografx back in the day either.


Market penetration wise, I guess you are correct I don't judge consoles by market penetration because they are usually judged by total sales, I think the Saturn(maybe TG16 too) is unique in which it was successful in 1 region only making the rest of world unaware of it. Usually its the opposite where something is popular everywhere else except that 1 region/country.

Have you seen a Neo-Geo in person? That was a lot harder to spot I think only 1 million units sold.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by Segata Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:40 am

https://nintendoeverything.com/monster- ... h-america/

WOO! Monster Boy finally coming out and physical for Switch! Makes me so happy!
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Anayo
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by Anayo Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:45 am

Segata wrote:https://nintendoeverything.com/monster-boy-is-getting-a-physical-release-in-north-america/

WOO! Monster Boy finally coming out and physical for Switch! Makes me so happy!


Lately I've been more excited about indie releases rather than AAA. I feel ill-at-ease about it, though, because these are usually download-only. Sometimes they get a physical release later, but not always. Thankfully Owlboy is getting a physical release on Switch in May.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by ElkinFencer10 Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:47 am

RCBH928 wrote:That being said I can't deny the N64 4 ports, spaceship-looking 3-handles controller with analogue (was it the first analogue ever?)

No, the Vectrex and Atari 5200 both had analogue control sticks in 1982, and the Vectrex's control stick was not only analogue but self-centering unlike the 5200's analogue control stick.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by isiolia Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:26 am

RCBH928 wrote:Did they ever explain why they went the cartridge route? Wasn't it because it was harder to make bootlegs out of? The disadvantages seem a lot more than the advantages here. Not sure how it was percieved back in the mid-90s.


At the time, if I recall, it was presented more as a load time issue. Which, being fair, is a downside of using discs, especially earlier CD-ROMs. On the other hand, like you mentioned, Nintendo could also keep a much tighter control over production. I think that was also a factor for the smaller format discs that the Gamecube used.

RCBH928 wrote:Which felt more next-gen for you? Saturn, PSX, or N64?


Well, keep in mind that the Saturn and PS1 had been on the market for a year or more by the time the N64 hit stores. I'd still say the N64 stood out more as a technological leap. Which isn't to put down what Sony and Sega had. Coming from a SNES or something, they were a huge leap. Coming from things like 3DO or Jaguar though, which had already been out for a bit, they weren't quite as revolutionary (nevermind for those also gaming on PC). Some of the early games were just ports of games from those systems, if not better quality ports of games also on 16-bit (like Mortal Kombat or NBA Jam).

Meanwhile, consider that consumer 3D acceleration was still a very new thing. In the same couple years or so that the new consoles were hitting, on the PC side, we were seeing add-in boards that could offer enhanced 3D for games that specifically supported them. Stuff like the nVidia NV1 chip or Rendition Verite. Some, like the early ATi ones, were notably slower than using a software renderer, even if they looked a lot nicer. Still, somewhat pricey, enthusiast stuff.
To see Nintendo offering similar tech in commodity hardware at a relatively low price was pretty amazing. Analog control wasn't new, but including it it felt forward looking for 3D. Mario 64 was very, very impressive. At the time, to me, it felt like more of a leap forward.

Again, a few years later, and some of the limitations of Nintendo's hardware and general approach became more apparent, along with the results of the shift in developer support. Early on though, the system was very promising.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by marurun Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:36 am

RCBH928 wrote:The PSX really looked from the future with the symbols for buttons instead of letters. I was amazed this thing could play audio CDs. Back then if you wanted to play Audio CDs you had to buy a dedicated system. Of course, there was the idea of the memory cards too and the controller with handles to grab. There is a lot more. The fact that you could play a game on a CD was amazing to me, back then I thought games can only be on cartridges kind of like the idea that a movie can only be on VHS (I didn't know about laserdisc).


I had a TurboGrafx-16 w/ CD-ROM attachment for several years before the Saturn and Playstation came out, and I could play CDs on it. In fact, the CD drive itself was removable from the CD base unit and could be connected to the original TG-16 power adapter (which wasn't needed as the CD base unit's power adapter was adequate to drive the entire system) to use as a "portable" CD player. It wasn't much bigger than the Sony Diskman units that came a bit later. I would regularly detach the CD drive from the larger system and take it up to my room at bedtime, plug it into the TG-16 power adapter I had waiting for it, and listen to CDs before bed. In fact, the TG-CD could go CD-G discs as well, though I never owned any to test in it.

In the early years of the 5th generation, I saw the Saturn and Playstation as fairly similar. The Playstation had a little more flash and the Saturn had a little more substance. Once the libraries grew a bit it was clear that, for the most part, Sony was more successful, but Sega still put so much love into the platform. The Saturn was not a neglected system, at least not by Sega, despite low sales outside Japan.

RCBH928 wrote:Did they ever explain why they went the cartridge route? Wasn't it because it was harder to make bootlegs out of? The disadvantages seem a lot more than the advantages here. Not sure how it was percieved back in the mid-90s.


I don't personally know Nintendo's justifications, but this section of the relevant Wikipedia article offers quotes from Nintendo execs among other information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_ ... evelopment
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by ElkinFencer10 Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:32 pm

IIRC they were concerned about piracy and load times.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by Anayo Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:14 pm

ElkinFencer10 wrote:IIRC they were concerned about piracy and load times.


Chris Alaimo of classic gaming quarterly suggests it had something to do with making the N64 hardware cost less. The way he presents it in his "launch of the N64" video leads me to believe Nintendo was OK with cheap N64's and expensive cartridge games rather than the vice-versa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeHk5ujpZ2s#t=8m0s
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by ElkinFencer10 Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:00 pm

Anayo wrote:
ElkinFencer10 wrote:IIRC they were concerned about piracy and load times.


Chris Alaimo of classic gaming quarterly suggests it had something to do with making the N64 hardware cost less. The way he presents it in his "launch of the N64" video leads me to believe Nintendo was OK with cheap N64's and expensive cartridge games rather than the vice-versa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeHk5ujpZ2s#t=8m0s

Ah, I hadn't seen that. That would make sense.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

by marurun Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:10 pm

That Wikipedia article covers this ground. Click the link, darn you!
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