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Arenegeth
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Re: What are you playing?

by Arenegeth Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:42 pm

pierrot wrote:Depending on who you ask, that might be the toughest thing to do in Shenmue.

It was actually pretty easy to execute, once you have everything figured out. The problem is figuring everything out...

pierrot wrote:Chai

Well the lack of those Notebook entries, in an otherwise complete Notebook (minus any unavoidable gaps), would actually be the proof that you beat Chai on that playthrough.

Besides, and I'm not that far in the game yet obviously, so I don't know if those entries are possible to be missed even if you do lose to Chai (as the game naturally expects you to) so the only way you can miss them, is beating an enemy you can, and are expected to lose to otherwise.

But I'll look into it later, as I have other more urgent things to worry about in the meantime.

pierrot wrote:The guide I used recommends doing a lot of stuff, like getting the four certificates, between buying the boat ticket, and starting the job at the docks.

That seems like a good plan. I admit I wasn't that efficient even with my restart of the game, but I'm hoping it will not cost me the whole playthrough in the end.

pierrot wrote:Speaking of, here's the main page (which is actually a Shenmue I and Shenmue II guide

Thanks for that, very useful information in there, and everything looks a lot better than stuff we westerners got over at GameFaqs.

Can you clarify this part from your link about the moves?:

④効率の良い練習
『中級以下では10回技を出すとポイントが加算される』
『中級以上では20回技を出すとポイントが加算される』

ただし、中級以上のポイントが溜まっていても、全技巻物を開いて中級以上になった状態を確認・確定しなければ、中級以下の状態のポイント加算が行われる。本来は中級以上のはずなのに、10回でポイント加算の状態を続けることが出来ます。製作者側が狙って残したバグかと思われます。

中級手前で止めておいて、そこから全技巻物を開かずに練習を行えば、一気に10回ずつのポイントのままで上級まで上げきることが出来ます。単純計算で中級から上級まで、半分の労力で済みます。


If I understand that part correctly, based on the job Google did to translate it, and some experimenting I did myself since I read it.

When moves cross the line from beginner to intermediate, they start to level up slower, but if you don't actually check your moves scroll, though they still advance all the way to max, they level up at the higher rate afforded to by the beginner state, since you haven't 'updated' the move by looking at the scroll.

If that is the case, and though I haven't taken advantage of this from the very beginning, and also I run the risk of over-training without knowing whether I maxed out or not. It is still a great advantage I can use to save me overall training time. And let's face it, that's where the majority of my actual in-game time is gonna go.

Speaking of which, I took a couple of days at the end of Disc 1 to devote entirely to training, so I started Disc 2 at the morning of December 13th.

So in starting Disc 2 here's my biggest issues right now.

1. I'm really low on funds. The constant back and forth between Lapis and the Harbor early in Disc 2 has depleted any additional funds the couple of extra training days afforded me. And now I had to take an extra break in Disc 2 (though I did that because I wanted the Goro help at the Warehouse also) to help cover the immediate bus fare and Lapis expenses.

2. The Arm Break Fire Scroll. Throw moves are going to be the biggest problem in managing to complete everything in time (which just got even more limited, more on that later) since I can't train them directly, and though I try to use them exclusively in free battles and the daily sparring with Fuku-San (which will end eventually). I'm worried that the ones you learn later in the game, will take too long to max out (all but Tengu Drop and Shoulder Buster are already past the halfway point). And I obviously can't afford the 3000 Yen for the Arm Break Scroll now, and I didn't buy it earlier in the game when I could, thinking Mud Spider and Crawl Cyclone would be useful for Chai... And yes I have used 'Train Throw Moves only' at the bed since day 1.

So I'm not sure if this will end up screwing me over in the end forcing a restart very late in the game.

The quest I'm time pressured for in Shenmue II, is Fangmei's birthday. Though her actual birthday is on March 3rd, the quest begins at the 28th of February and you need to be at the Temple airing the books at least 2 days before that, add a little leeway time so I'm not too forced at the start of II and I have to basically get everything done by January 31st at the latest.
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Re: What are you playing?

by pierrot Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:59 pm

Arenegeth wrote:Can you clarify this part from your link about the moves?

Yeah, so essentially my understanding is that the game doesn't actually add up all the points added to your skill proficiency until you open up the moves window, or exit the training (the latter I'm not positive of, I just remember that quitting a training session automatically opens up the moves screen, but I could be misremembering that). So, what the guide says is that below the intermediate proficiency line, a move needs to be used 10 times for one point of skill proficiency toward that move, but once the skill has been observed to reach proficiency above that line (often moves change visually a bit with the proficiency, so it's kind of noticeable, too), by opening the moves screen, it takes 20 times to gain a point, from then on. However, due to some sort of bug, perhaps, if you train it up to just below that line, check it, then continue to train it until it would hit master proficiency, then every point will only take 10 repetitions, as long as the moves screen isn't opened again until it would hit master proficiency.

I took advantage of that, a bit, but I don't know if I actually trained any moves up to master proficiency. No more than a couple, anyway, I'm sure. For your purposes, it might be worth trying to count points needed to get to intermediate proficiency. My guess is that it would be the same number required to get to master proficiency (the author doesn't explicitly state that, but seems to make the same assumption in that last line of text).

What I had kind of envisioned, for my purposes, was to get the moves up to the maximum proficiency required for carrying over into Shenmue II, then essentially keep a second save file for maxing out all the moves, with the benefit of a couple more in-game months to just work on training them up. That was also probably where I was going to worry about collecting all the regular capsule toys, from dispensers.

Arenegeth wrote:1. I'm really low on funds.

Yeah, I remember money being really tight, for exactly the reasons you mentioned, up until the boat ticket section. At that point I gained a bit more disposable income to deal with, but I think I also probably had a little bit more to work with through the earlier sections, just because I wasn't necessarily moving too swiftly through events. I was already at the 30th of December by the time I was fighting Chai at the end of Disc 2.
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Arenegeth
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Re: What are you playing?

by Arenegeth Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:02 pm

After careful thought and consideration... I decided to restart my playthrough yet again.

I'm already back at the end of Disc 1, currently training for money and moves, though I could train the moves at a later time, the urgency is mostly for money.

One mistake I did last time as I was finishing Disc 1, was start Disc 2 on the weekend. Why does that matter? Well the buses have a slower schedule on the weekends, and there's a lot of back and forth with the bus in early Disc 2, I was wasting time needlessly having longer waits for the bus. My current plan is to start on December 15th which is Monday and if possible, start with at least 5000 Yen in the pocket.

To be honest, not much was done differently on this playthrough, except getting the Arm Break Fire Scroll instead of Mud Spider, which ultimately cost 2000 Yen more. Optimizing training didn't change all that much in practice, I guess I unknowingly benefited from the 'bug' more than I thought.

Here's the other issue though, the tapes. As the tapes cycle out every week, I did not want to leave them too late into the game in case I found myself in the position of cycling out a week with nothing else to do, just to get the tapes to appear, plus new tapes show up later in the game. So, I decided to pick a single tape per day, which actually caused me to miss the fourth tape of the first cycle, because the game doesn't start on the beginning of the cycle, after the first three days it switched to the second cycle. Not a big deal as I am going back into the first cycle as I'm starting Disc 2. EDIT1: Actually the tapes cycled on to a completely new set than the old one, I'm forced to ignore them if I am to make the money/time schedule.

In the process of spending all that money however, I decided to make the expenditure more worthy, so every time I bought a tape, I save scummed a raffle prize, and excluded the 5th prize as a viable one.

Last time as I got all the tapes without save scumming, I manged to win only a single raffle prize and it was the second one (got the Space Harrier game) this time I already got all Rank 4 prices, 2/4 Rank 3 prices and... A shiny new black boombox!

Save scumming for the Tomato Mart at the harbor would be harder, because of the longer run, but I'll also hopefully have to do it a lot less or settle for 5th prize that shows up pretty often.

And no, I will not be restarting again, besides the only thing I could really do 'better' is ignore the tapes which would save me some money, but not incredibly much, the December 15th 5k Yen start of Disc 2 save should be my new return point, if anything is to go sour in the future.

But wait there's more craziness going on!

After restarting and doing most of Disc 1 for the third time, I figured, hell, I know the game up to this point like the back of my hand, let's up the stakes!

So after I get comfortable in Disc 2, I will be restarting the game yet again but... It will be the HD version!

I decided to do a parallel perfect playthrough of both versions of the game, Original PAL Dreamcast and PS4 HD release! I can actually record some stuff in the PS4 version if necessary (like the Charlie night run) so that would be an advantage, plus you can save wherever you want in that version.

Why not? Let's go crazy and start this year with a bang! With the third game finally coming out in 2019 this will be the year of Shenmue!

pierrot wrote:For your purposes, it might be worth trying to count points needed to get to intermediate proficiency.

It seems that starting right under the intermediate (or moderate as is translated in-game) line, requires you to execute a move a total of 910 times in order to max it. The 10 is for the 1 point under the moderate line I'm starting the process at. And it seems to take around 200-300 moves to go from under beginner to right under moderate, though I didn't keep an accurate count on this part, since I could safely go in the menu and check the progress in real time. EDIT2: It takes 440 moves total to go from right under the beginner line to right under moderate, making a move take 1350 executions from the lowest point to the max total.

I will do more testing as I train more moves to max as I move further in the game (currently have 5). Though on a full training day it seems that you have enough time to max one move starting for right under the moderate line, and enough time to set up another move for the next day. Of course different moves have faster/slower animations and are harder/easier to execute than others, so millage may vary.
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Re: What are you playing?

by PartridgeSenpai Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:03 am

Started up GTA4: The Lost & The Damned today. I thought I'd at least give it a try before I started The Ballad of Gay Tony (the real reason I bought Liberty City Stories). My first impressions are that the VA is quite good (at least on the main characters) and the story seems interesting, but good god is this an UGLY game on 360. Just a whole world dipped in Vaseline and beige food coloring. The gunplay is also absolutely horrible, but at least the driving is alright so far :lol:
I identify everyone via avatar, so if you change your avatar, I genuinely might completely forget who you are. -- Me
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noiseredux
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Re: What are you playing?

by noiseredux Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:49 pm

There's no BIG games coming out in the near future that I'm super excited about, so I had been in a sort of not-sure-what-to-play state. Normally I'd start the next Together Retro game, but I don't have access to any Konami Genesis games. The combination has really gotten me in a zone of going back and playing some classics. After finishing up Super Mario World on New Year's Day, I launched into Super Mario Bros 2 last night. I feel like I'll be able to finish that one off tonight, so after that I'm not sure. I've got a bunch of old classics in mind.
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Re: What are you playing?

by Xeogred Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:12 pm

noiseredux wrote:There's no BIG games coming out in the near future that I'm super excited about, so I had been in a sort of not-sure-what-to-play state. Normally I'd start the next Together Retro game, but I don't have access to any Konami Genesis games. The combination has really gotten me in a zone of going back and playing some classics. After finishing up Super Mario World on New Year's Day, I launched into Super Mario Bros 2 last night. I feel like I'll be able to finish that one off tonight, so after that I'm not sure. I've got a bunch of old classics in mind.

What happened to the RE fan noise I used to know? January 25th!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: What are you playing?

by Markies Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:36 pm

I started Radiata Stories on the Sony Playstation 2 this evening!

I am a rather large fan of Tri-Ace, the developer behind Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile. They have some of the most extensive, beautiful and intriguing games I have ever played. My friend bought me a copy of Radiata Stories and I've always wanted to play. This year, I made it a resolution to finally play through it.

The game doesn't feel like a Tri-Ace game at all. It is way too funny for it to be a Tri-Ace game. The original Valkyrie Profile had so many emotional moments while Radiata Stories is genuinely funny. I chuckled several times at the dialogue. Also, the game seems much easier than other games by them. I am rolling through the battles with little problem at all. Just bashing attack for the win. The music is very catchy and the graphics have this time less look to it.

I wish the button layout was a bit better and I hope there is a better way to control time.

However, I quickly became addicted to it and I am very excited for what the game holds. So far, it is living up to the anticipation that I built for a while now.
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Arenegeth
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Re: What are you playing?

by Arenegeth Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:54 am

So in Shenmue I hit a bit of a dilemma.

During the part where you break into the warehouse, if you keep failing (wasting an entire day in the process) you eventually get help by the old bum, which includes a map and several updates to the map.

The map is an actual item you get to keep all the way to the end of the game, and the scenes with the old bum, could be considered optional cut scenes.

So I wasn't sure, if I should do this section as effectively as possible on the first try, or if I should keep failing on purpose so I could get the complete map and all the cut scenes.

I originally decided to fail on purpose, because at the very least, and assuming you still get your allowance for those days, the skipping of days would have solved my money problem pretty much for the rest of the game, it would have also landed me either at, or right after Christmas. But while I was in the process of doing it, I just tried to make a run for it and actually manged to get in the warehouse without getting caught on the first try.

For the time being I'm keeping it this way, I'm not sure if what I'm trying to accomplish here from the start, at least at a time frame which allows you to do the quest in the second game, is even possible.

Though there's many people out there who did a complete Notebook run or all the collectables, or max out all moves, doesn't look like there's many (or any that I could see a record of) that tried to do everything at once...

So for now I'll keep going this way, and if I see that I have the time to spare in the future I may go back to my save right before that section and do everything all over.

Good thing that Shenmue, just like the Yakuza series, is one of those games I'm never getting bored of, though I'm sure by the end of this, I'll be putting that to the test.
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Re: What are you playing?

by noiseredux Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:23 am

Xeogred wrote:What happened to the RE fan noise I used to know? January 25th!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


ugh I know. This is the one that's kind of killing me right now. Since I found out my wife is expecting I've been going through a sort of 'nesting' thing where when I find time to game, I tend to want to be hanging out with her in case she needs anything from me. So that's why I've been so focused on Switch/WiiU/3DS stuff - because I can play them outside of my game room. RE2 is the one game I'm super excited about, but not sure if I'll actually play it right away now. I was kinda hoping for a Switch port, haha.
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Re: What are you playing?

by prfsnl_gmr Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:33 am

Yes. I understand this completely. With a baby in the house - congrats, again, Noise! - portable gaming is the way to go.

I am so happy for you and your wife! Becoming a father is one of the best things that has ever happened to me, and while you have a few sleepless nights coming up, you have some really amazing times ahead of you.
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