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pepharytheworm
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by pepharytheworm Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:40 pm

irixith wrote:Emulation. I've got the original controllers + adapters, and to me the controllers are generally the missing link. Visual filters, save states, cheat searching, etc, etc etc -- why would I want to deal with things like RF output with today's display technology? I'm not keeping around an old CRT television -- they're huge, heavy and suck too much power.

I'm completely happy with the state of emulators for all the things I like to play. I have no want whatsoever to collect up all the physical carts and systems and such. I've already been there once, and it means absolutely nothing.


I always consider people with this mind set, gamers who play retro games and not retro gamers. People like this don't want to deal with the limitaions of the actual games and want modern convenieces. Whats retro about wanting it modern?
Last edited by pepharytheworm on Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by Opa Opa Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:47 pm

irixith wrote:I'm not keeping around an old CRT television -- they're huge, heavy and suck too much power.


:? Unplug the tv?
CRT= Forever

Edit: I keep all of my game systems & my tv all on a surge protector so all I have to do is shut it off and unplug it to save power.
Last edited by Opa Opa on Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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irixith
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by irixith Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:47 pm

pepharytheworm wrote:
irixith wrote:Emulation. I've got the original controllers + adapters, and to me the controllers are generally the missing link. Visual filters, save states, cheat searching, etc, etc etc -- why would I want to deal with things like RF output with today's display technology? I'm not keeping around an old CRT television -- they're huge, heavy and suck too much power.

I'm completely happy with the state of emulators for all the things I like to play. I have no want whatsoever to collect up all the physical carts and systems and such. I've already been there once, and it means absolutely nothing.


I always consider people with this mind set, gamers who play retro games and not retro gamers. People like this don't want to deal with the limitaions of the actual games and want modern convenieces.


I've owned them all, and am simply not interested in the space they take up or the inconvenience of their operation and maintenance as they age. I am no less a retro gamer than someone who prefers to go the real hardware route.
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pepharytheworm
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by pepharytheworm Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:51 pm

irixith wrote:I've owned them all, and am simply not interested in the space they take up or the inconvenience of their operation and maintenance as they age. I am no less a retro gamer than someone who prefers to go the real hardware route.


Whatever helps you sleep night :lol:

But its okay if we disagree.
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t0yrobo
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by t0yrobo Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:07 pm

pepharytheworm wrote:
irixith wrote:Emulation. I've got the original controllers + adapters, and to me the controllers are generally the missing link. Visual filters, save states, cheat searching, etc, etc etc -- why would I want to deal with things like RF output with today's display technology? I'm not keeping around an old CRT television -- they're huge, heavy and suck too much power.

I'm completely happy with the state of emulators for all the things I like to play. I have no want whatsoever to collect up all the physical carts and systems and such. I've already been there once, and it means absolutely nothing.


I always consider people with this mind set, gamers who play retro games and not retro gamers. People like this don't want to deal with the limitaions of the actual games and want modern convenieces. Whats retro about wanting it modern?


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:



D.D.D. wrote:I have over a dozen consoles, 100s of games, and I am certainly limited by the number of connections, clutter, and space I am willing to devote to gaming. Even though I have space, I don't want to have every single console connected.
At my TV right now is: Wii, PS3, PS2, Saturn, and Xbox. With 5 systems I cover 15+: NES, SNES, N64, GEN, SMS, PCE, GB, GBA, GC, PS1 (+ Wii, PS3, PS2, Saturn, and Xbox) and more via emus if I choose. I will connect my N64 soon as VC & emus don't cut it for that system for me.
With 5 systems and the proper authentic console controllers + adapters, I am quite comfortable with the quality of emulation these days.
Of course, time and time again I do bring out the original systems because nothing beats the real feel and nostalgia. :)
Otherwise, emulation lets me play more and have less to worry about.


That's more like it :D
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by Hatta Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:12 pm

irixith wrote:Emulation. I've got the original controllers + adapters, and to me the controllers are generally the missing link. Visual filters, save states, cheat searching, etc, etc etc -- why would I want to deal with things like RF output with today's display technology? I'm not keeping around an old CRT television -- they're huge, heavy and suck too much power.


I'm a real hardware guy, and I have to disagree with all of this. I hate visual filters. Bilinear filtering is just blur, not good. HQ2x scaling changes the art too much for my liking. If I have to emulate it's integer scaling or nothing.

Save states, etc. That's cheating. Not much point in playing then.

RF output, there are mods for every system to get you composite video or better.

CRTs vs LCDs, using old fashioned analog displays is the only way to be sure you're not adding excess lag.

Speaking of lag, controller adapters can introduce lag between when you press the button and the signal arrives at the USB port. Your OS can cause lag between reading the USB port and delivering the signal to the emulator. And the emulator can have it's own internal lag (look at MAME and the improvement from the lagless patches for instance). Depending on your setup and the games you're playing this may or may not be a problem. If you run on real hardware you can be absolutely certain that there is no extra latency.

And then there's screen tearing. Emulating an NTSC display on a computer display will cause screen tearing unless you turn on Vsync. But when you turn on vsync, you're just adding extra lag. It's so much easier to just use the real hardware and not worry about any of this.

I have no want whatsoever to collect up all the physical carts and systems and such. I've already been there once, and it means absolutely nothing.


I'm with you here. This is what flash carts are for.

With all that said, choosing emulators shouldn't damage your retro-cred. There are problems with both approaches, and it's a matter of preference in the end. Beating a game on an emulator isn't any less impressive than beating it on a real machine, unless you're cheating of course.
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noiseredux
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by noiseredux Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:14 pm

what's screen tearing?
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irixith
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by irixith Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:15 pm

pepharytheworm wrote:
irixith wrote:I've owned them all, and am simply not interested in the space they take up or the inconvenience of their operation and maintenance as they age. I am no less a retro gamer than someone who prefers to go the real hardware route.


Whatever helps you sleep night :lol:

But its okay if we disagree.


Disagree about what? What makes someone a retrogamer? If your definition means you have to have twenty systems hooked up to a CRT in your basement, then that's just silly. Retrogaming is about love for the systems, the games, and sharing that love with other people, regardless of how you choose to enjoy them. Maybe you're confusing retrogaming with being some sort of collector.

I used to have rooms full of the stuff -- systems, carts, multiple TVs, discs, custom shelving and boxes. At a certain point the physical stuff just wasn't doing anything for me, other than being a gigantic pain in the ass every time I moved to preserve it properly. I sold it all, paid off my university loans with what I made, banked the rest, and now I have a dedicated emulation set up in its stead. It make me happy that I can still play the games that I love, with minimal space requirements and on modern televisions without worrying about hookups, VGA boxes, upscalers and the like.

So I guess I can sleep at night -- it's not emulation vs hardware in some peculiar duel to the "only one side can be right and legitimate" death.
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noiseredux
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by noiseredux Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:18 pm

alright, once and for all:

emulation people you're over here.
hardware people over here.
we're gonna have a good ol' fashioned tug-o-war to figure this thing out.
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Re: Hardware Vs Emulators

by Hatta Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:18 pm

That's when the emulated display syncs at a different rate than the actual display, so the top and bottom of the screen seem to scroll at slightly different rates. Try playing Sonic without vsync or double buffering and you'll see what I mean. Here is a pretty good explanation and illustration.
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