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flamepanther
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by flamepanther Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:57 am

EvilRyu2099 wrote:I thought the product was good, never had a high failure rate and ran the software properly..
Depends on who you ask...
I never said the PS was better than the Saturn and I still don't think that, but I'm just arguing on why it outsold the other consoles..
OK, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying. I understand why it sold better, but that has very little to do with the consoles themselves.
All three consoles in that era were identical... Actually scratch that, the PS and Saturn were identical consoles for the most part... The N64 actually ran on more powerful hardware..
PS1 and Saturn are actually very different beasts. Mega Man 8 and all of Capcom's fighting games turned out much better on Saturn than on PS1, yet their first Resident Evil game turned out significantly better on the PS1. Clearly that suggests some kind of difference exists in the hardware?
Define what makes a console Better? I can only think of how it functions and what software is available..
There's quality of workmanship and manufacturing, for one. I don't know if you've taken either console apart, but the Saturn is much better put together. There's also the issue of what can one product do that the other can't--how much potential is in it? Saturn had the upper hand in terms of quickly handling large numbers of 2D sprites, which accounts largely for its popularity on this forum. It also had much better 3D capabilities than most give it credit for. I'm assuming from your previous remarks that you have not actually watched the footage of the Shenmue beta for Saturn, which was no mere tech demo. It included several completed game segments IN ACTION that matched or surpassed anything we ever saw from the PS1. It's entirely plausible that the Saturn had more potential than the PS1 in 3D games, not just 2D, but that potential was left unharnessed.
In fact, the playstation had slightly faster loading times from what I remember...
That depends entirely on the software. Both consoles used a 2x CD-ROM, so the discs are read at identical speeds.
I purchased a Saturn prior to getting a PS and didn't even have one until christmas 1996..
I watched all three consoles closely from launch, but bought the N64 first, then PS1 (because I was a huge Mega Man fanatic, and Mega Man Legends was moved from N64 to PS1), then Saturn. I favored the PS1 over the Saturn initially, because as you say, they did a better job of selling it to me. When I say I watched them closely, this was in terms of what was being presented on in-store playable kiosks and on TV, and at friends' houses...

It was once I owned a Saturn and started to discover all of the Saturn games I overlooked due to lack of publicity that I changed my mind about it. NiGHTS and Panzer Dragoon impressed me before, but that was all I really knew of then. I had never heard of Burning Rangers or Astal. I had never compared my collection of PS1 fighting games to their Saturn counterparts. Once I did, I sold off all the PS1 versions without a second thought. It was the experience of letting a quality product finally speak for itself instead of letting marketers try to tell me what to think. THAT is what SHOULD sell a game console. I know that it's not and never will be, but that doesn't change what ought to be.
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by EvilRyu2099 Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:20 am

flamepanther wrote:OK, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying. I understand why it sold better, but that has very little to do with the consoles themselves.
Alot of why the PS outsold the Saturn had a lot to do with the actual console, mainly the library.. Hardware is always going to be similar with each generation, you hardly see sales reflect the power of said console's hardware..
PS1 and Saturn are actually very different beasts. Mega Man 8 and all of Capcom's fighting games turned out much better on Saturn than on PS1, yet their first Resident Evil game turned out significantly better on the PS1. Clearly that suggests some kind of difference exists in the hardware?
I meant identical in overall performance... It's similar to the 360 and ps3, similar performance with slight quirks here or there..
There's quality of workmanship and manufacturing, for one. I don't know if you've taken either console apart, but the Saturn is much better put together. There's also the issue of what can one product do that the other can't--how much potential is in it? Saturn had the upper hand in terms of quickly handling large numbers of 2D sprites, which accounts largely for its popularity on this forum. It also had much better 3D capabilities than most give it credit for. I'm assuming from your previous remarks that you have not actually watched the footage of the Shenmue beta for Saturn, which was no mere tech demo. It included several completed game segments IN ACTION that matched or surpassed anything we ever saw from the PS1. It's entirely plausible that the Saturn had more potential than the PS1 in 3D games, not just 2D, but that potential was left unharnessed.
I doubt it was ever unharnessed... I've yet to see games on the Saturn match the graphics in Tekken 3 which was a tremendous near perfect port of the Arcade aside from the backgrounds.. Better put together? I've taken both apart and both are well put together, I'll give the Saturn it's credit because their Motherboard was put together more methodically.. But both consoles performed very similar.. And for the reasons people sell the Saturn's 3D capabilities short, you could say the same for the PS in 2D as well. Games like Street Fighter Alpha 1, Street Fighter Collection, Marvel Super Heroes, Gaia Seed and even Sotn which is a hybrid all performed just as well as their Saturn counterparts.. The Saturn had a big advantage with the VS games due to the RAM cart addon..
That depends entirely on the software. Both consoles used a 2x CD-ROM, so the discs are read at identical speeds.
From most of the games I played and I've played many on both consoles, the PS loaded slightly faster... Wasn't really noticeable but I'm just saying..
I watched all three consoles closely from launch, but bought the N64 first, then PS1 (because I was a huge Mega Man fanatic, and Mega Man Legends was moved from N64 to PS1), then Saturn. I favored the PS1 over the Saturn initially, because as you say, they did a better job of selling it to me. When I say I watched them closely, this was in terms of what was being presented on in-store playable kiosks and on TV, and at friends' houses...

It was once I owned a Saturn and started to discover all of the Saturn games I overlooked due to lack of publicity that I changed my mind about it. NiGHTS and Panzer Dragoon impressed me before, but that was all I really knew of then. I had never heard of Burning Rangers or Astal. I had never compared my collection of PS1 fighting games to their Saturn counterparts. Once I did, I sold off all the PS1 versions without a second thought. It was the experience of letting a quality product finally speak for itself instead of letting marketers try to tell me what to think. THAT is what SHOULD sell a game console. I know that it's not and never will be, but that doesn't change what ought to be.
I kind of agree with your statement, but Sega still did a terrible job of marketing their system.. I remember when I was a little kid and I had a saturn while all my friends had a PS or N64 and I was jealous of them... You also have to remember that the Saturn had an awful sports library and some terrible shovelware as well.. For as much good as there is in the Saturn library, there is plenty of bad as well... Doom, Sonic R and Roboica come to mind..
Last edited by EvilRyu2099 on Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by EvilRyu2099 Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:23 am

BTW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUe9ASlu9Us

Very nice.. But I wouldn't say the PS couldn't handle it either..
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by EvilRyu2099 Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:28 am

Alright I think we are taking this a bit too far... We should continue this debate in PMs if you are up for it.. This thread is getting a bit off topic.. :lol:
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by Wim_Senna Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:46 am

Does anybody here watch CGRHD on Youtube? He's got some comparison video's of identical games and Megadrive and SNES.

There is hardly anything in between them (just that the Megadrive has that permanent cold).

Although in Speedball 2 on the MD the speech is crystal clear (lazy programmers?)
PC Engine Duo,Sega Master System, Sega Megadrive, SNES, Gameboy Advance, Atari Lynx, Playstation, PS2, PS3, PSP, NES,Gameboy,Atari 7800,Wii
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by flamepanther Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:28 pm

EvilRyu2099 wrote:And for the reasons people sell the Saturn's 3D capabilities short, you could say the same for the PS in 2D as well. Games like Street Fighter Alpha 1, Street Fighter Collection, Marvel Super Heroes, Gaia Seed and even Sotn which is a hybrid all performed just as well as their Saturn counterparts..
Basically, the least demanding of the fighting games? I'm not sure that's really praiseworthy. PS1 wasn't even adequate for the earlier King of Fighters games--and those were made for a 16-bit era platform!. Saturn was able to handle them nicely. Several of Capcom's fighters were missing frames of character animation on PS1 as well, and/or scaled to lower resolutions, even when RAM carts weren't needed on the Saturn version.
The Saturn had a big advantage with the VS games due to the RAM cart addon..
The fact that the PS1 didn't have a way to accept a RAM expansion is a hardware limitation of the PS1 itself, however. Saturn and N64 were both prepared for a possible need for more RAM, so what's the excuse for PS1? It already had enough? Clearly not.

Anyway, I just wanted to address those points. I'll let it go from here on.
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by jfrost Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:31 pm

Don't have time to read all the thread now but technically all Capcom fighters had the resolution scaled down. CPS2 games used a resolution not supported by any home console.
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by flamepanther Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:36 pm

jfrost wrote:Don't have time to read all the thread now but technically all Capcom fighters had the resolution scaled down. CPS2 games used a resolution not supported by any home console.
Yeah, if you don't scale them horizontally the characters will look fat. However, scaling the graphics to make them look right is totally different from having to scale them even more so that the target platform can even handle them.
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by EvilRyu2099 Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:27 pm

flamepanther wrote:Basically, the least demanding of the fighting games? I'm not sure that's really praiseworthy. PS1 wasn't even adequate for the earlier King of Fighters games--and those were made for a 16-bit era platform!. Saturn was able to handle them nicely. Several of Capcom's fighters were missing frames of character animation on PS1 as well, and/or scaled to lower resolutions, even when RAM carts weren't needed on the Saturn version.
The least demanding? Marvel Superheroes least demanding right? give me a break!! Let it go both were similar consoles.. In fact Alpha 2 almost ran identical as well.. Alpha 3 was very good on PS and never missed a beat either!!!
Anyway, I just wanted to address those points. I'll let it go from here on.
I have a feeling you will respond regardless.. It seems like you are willing to go on and on about this but you just won't persuade me from my opinions..
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Re: Sega Genesis vs. SNES!?

by EvilRyu2099 Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:30 pm

jfrost wrote:Don't have time to read all the thread now but technically all Capcom fighters had the resolution scaled down. CPS2 games used a resolution not supported by any home console.

Bingo a lot of the CPS2 hardware was scaled down for every single console.. Even Saturn..
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