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Dikdikvandik
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Dikdikvandik Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:33 pm

There is no reason for them to have not resolved more. The ending was almost self parody. I didn't wait 20 years for resolution only to get...nope this a cartoon where the villain always gets away now.
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Reprise
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Reprise Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:44 am

Erm spoilers!
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Reprise Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:54 am

Also sHeNmUe ShOuLd JuSt EnD is the stupidest take in the world.

1. Shenmue is about the journey, not the ending.

2. There's no way Ryo is ready for Lan Di yet, unless you want the game to do some ridiculous Rocky style 3 minute montage of Ryo training for months on end.

3. Yu Suzuki confirmed like 50 billion decades ago that the story won't end with the Lan Di arc and the game's story will transition into something far bigger

4. It has already been heavily implied throughout the series that Ryo's lust for revenge will eventually subside as greater threats emerge and the narrative focus shifts to the meaning of the mirrors.
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Sload Soap Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:59 am

You can keep bleating on in the game's defence that the story doesn't conclude but bottom line is it still takes the piss that Shenmue 3 doesn't wrap anything up. Sales aren't great for Shenmue 3, does Suzuki expect to crowdfund another installement if they don't pick up? He had an extremely unique chance to wrap stuff up but seems to be either too stubborn or shortsighted to do so.
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Reprise Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:42 am

Obviously you don't enjoy the story much if you just want an ending/resolution at any cost, and the games therefore aren't for you.

Here's your shite ending:

*cut to 3 minute montage of Ryo training over the course of several years*
*the mirrors have no hidden meaning*
*Shenhua has no powers, she's just a girl that has crazy prophecies and coincidently Ryo matches the person of her dreams*
*Ryo kills Lan Di and strolls off into the sunset*
*cut to several years later. Ryo is living in Canada and is married to Nozomi. They have two children, Shenhua and Ren. A man claiming to be Lan Di's son bursts through the door of their home and kills Ryo in cold blood*

Enjoy ;)
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by PartridgeSenpai Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:45 am

Sload Soap wrote:You can keep bleating on in the game's defence that the story doesn't conclude but bottom line is it still takes the piss that Shenmue 3 doesn't wrap anything up. Sales aren't great for Shenmue 3, does Suzuki expect to crowdfund another installement if they don't pick up? He had an extremely unique chance to wrap stuff up but seems to be either too stubborn or shortsighted to do so.


This is more or less the perspective that I have had, but at this point, I don't think there's any way Yu Suzuki even cares if the story is concluded. From how the people who like the game talk about it, Shenmue seems to be an experience about a journey first and foremost. Suzuki himself seems to think that everything else is unimportant outside of this "life sim"-style journey gameplay, and I can only imagine that he doesn't think it's important if the story is ever wrapped up.

Either that, or yeah he's kinda shockingly confident that he'll get another several games to wrap up this story despite how everything has gone with 3's sales (although I like to think it's the former and not the latter).
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Reprise Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:51 am

Oh and Shenmue IV isn't going to be a problem. They have an engine in place, the assets in place, a team in place and a publisher. There won't be any of the ground work involved this time.
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Sload Soap Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:28 am

You still need to pay people wages and publicity costs. Deep Silver came in to help but will probably just as easily jump ship if they don't see any significant sales to warrant a Shenmue 4. I'm struggling to think of another situation where a creator has had a chance to end a story that fans essentially paid him to end and then went, nah, maybe next time. I don't think Suzuki is a scam artist but he is probably not a very good producer on a project this big. He is a great developer of systems in games but narratives seem to escape his purview. Shenmue is not Tetris, it is system focused but narrative driven and so a lack of conclusion is a very valid reason to pass on the game and be a bit narked all round.

Just as an aside but this was one of my fears for Shenmue 3 when it was announced as a Kickstarter project. All the best received KS games tend to be ones that were modestly budgeted, had a clear vision of what the game would be before anyone even started coding and while they may have harkened back to earlier games they were not direct sequels/spiritual successors.

Shenmue 3 never had any of these factors in its favour but a lot of us, myself included, were so blown away it could even happen we were happy to set some of those concerns aside. Now it's out though there is no turning away from the fact it's not all was hoped for and the ending kind of epitomises that. I'm not knocking anyone for enjoying it but this zeal some Shenmue fans have displayed towards those of us who were a bit more cautious is irksome. I also don't like this weird extension of KS as a consumer platform where the backers become free marketing for whatever game/book/beard-warmer they palmed some money to.
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by marurun Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 am

I think Shenmue is an auteur series of games. They are Suzuki's vision. While he is certainly considering some fan wants, it is ultimately his game and his story. Unlike most other games, it is Suzuki, and not potential sales, that are at the helm. Suzuki is clearly willing to see the series die out rather than compromise his grand vision. It is admirable, and something you rarely see in games that aren't basically tiny indie titles. It's much more common in movies. So on the one hand, I do appreciate the frustration that it seems like the story won't end and will likely never see a proper ending, but on the other hand, it's not like Suzuki hasn't provided ample indications that this is the case. Suzuki has NEVER said this will wrap things up. Coming into Shenmue III expecting some grand resolution is an act of self-denial. Nowhere has there been any indication that this would be the case. Quite the contrary.
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Re: I want Shenmue III

by Sload Soap Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:49 pm

Not really self denial, more reasonable expectation. Auteur status doesn't remove one from criticism does it?

But okay, we give Suzuki the benefit of the doubt, how much leeway does he get to complete his vision? Wasn't his original concept for something along the lines of 12-15 chapters running potentially what, 9 games?

Charitably you could say that it's amirable that he's kept to that vision but Shenmue has never been a profitable franchise so surely a minimum expectation, regardless of his own artistic intent, would be a bit of self-reflection and a rejig to scale things back to a place where at the very least the end is in sight. I don't think this is an unreasonable or self denying viewpoint regardless of where Suzuki himself stands. And again, as a Kickstarted project he isn't doing this on the dime of a multi-billion dollar publisher.
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