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REPO Man
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by REPO Man Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:45 pm

IIRC the first two Eye of the Beholder games can run on SCUMMVM. And I think the engine for one of the EOB games was used to create Dungeon Hack.

Really wish those old-school Gold Box games would get released on modern consoles.
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marurun
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by marurun Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:41 pm

REPO Man wrote:Really wish those old-school Gold Box games would get released on modern consoles.


They would not work well on console without some adjustments due to how combat movement works. Also, I don’t see console players accepting old PC game graphics readily. They often lack the charm of console and arcade graphics.
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by MrPopo Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:10 pm

marurun wrote:
REPO Man wrote:Really wish those old-school Gold Box games would get released on modern consoles.


They would not work well on console without some adjustments due to how combat movement works. Also, I don’t see console players accepting old PC game graphics readily. They often lack the charm of console and arcade graphics.

Pool of Radiance was already ported to console: the NES.
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MrPopo
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by MrPopo Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:32 pm

Previous Years: 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020

First 50:
1. EYE: Divine Cybermancy - PC
2. Legend of Grimrock - PC
3. Legend of Grimrock 2 - PC
4. Shovel Knight - Wii U
5. Yakuza: Like a Dragon - PS4
6. Yoshi's Island - SNES
7. Vectorman 2 - Genesis
8. Super Mario Sunshine - GC
9. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest - GC
10. Bomberman '93 - TG-16
11. Cannon Fodder - PC
12. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei - Saturn
13. Dragonborne - Game Boy
14. Rock n' Roll Racing - PC
15. The Lost Vikings - PC
16. Blackthorne - PC
17. Contra III: The Alien Wars - SNES
18. Bravely Default II - Switch
19. Axelay - SNES
20. Ryse: Son of Rome - XBOne
21. Killer Instinct (2013) - XBOne
22. Heretic Kingdoms: The Inquisition - PC
23. Thief: The Dark Project - PC
24. Killer Instinct - XBOne
25. Killer instinct 2 - XBOne
26. Record of Lodoss War: Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth - PC
27. Thief 2: The Metal Age - PC
28. Wing Commander II - PC
29. Wing Commander III - PC
30. The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV - Switch
31. Shadow Man Remastered - PC
32. Wing Commander: Privateer - PC
33. Salt and Sanctuary - Switch
34. The Elder Scrolls: Arena - PC
35. The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall - PC
36. Resident Evil Village - PC
37. SaGa Frontier Remastered - Switch
38. Metaloid: Origin - Switch
39. SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions - Switch
40. Metro Exodus: The Two Colonels - PC
41. Metro Exodus: Sam's Story - PC
42. Panzer Paladin - Switch
43. Returnal - PS5
44. Dark Void Zero - DSiWare
45. Panzer Dragoon Saga - Saturn
46. Magic Knight Rayearth - Saturn
47. Cathedral - Switch
48. Final Fantasy VII Remake: INTERmission - PS5
49. Eterium - PC
50. A Street Cat's Tale - Switch

51. Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling - Switch
52. Banner of the Maid - Switch
53. CrossCode - Switch
54. Total Annihilation: The Core Contingency - PC
55. Ultima Underworld - PC
56. Betrayal at Krondor - PC
57. Assassin's Creed: Origins - PC
58. Axiom Verge 2 - Switch
59. Elderborn - PC
60. Hellbound - PC
61. Wargroove - Switch
62. Eye of the Beholder - PC
63. Quake: Dimension of the Past - PC

Dimension of the Past is a free episode for Quake developed by MachineGames of Wolfenstein: The New Order fame in celebration of Quake's 20th anniversary. It consists of eight levels plus a secret level that compresses the experience so you go from easy stuff to end game stuff across those levels. The only thing you won't encounter is those floating bomb assholes, and thank god for that.

Because of the compressed progression you end up running into a lot of situations where you are super crunched for ammo, and the game reminds you that the Quake weapon suite is not really varied compared to later FPS's. The level geometry and enemy placements also tend to only have one good weapon for a given encounter, with another being a reasonable but not great backup. And this tends to create some ammo problems as you go through.

One thing that did annoy me about the episode is the designers enjoyed having deathtraps; going past a trigger and having basically no time to go through without dying. You're almost guaranteed to die to each one the first time, which is just not a great feeling. But overall it's a pretty solid set of levels.
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by prfsnl_gmr Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:54 pm

MrPopo wrote:Previous Years: 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020

First 50:
1. EYE: Divine Cybermancy - PC
2. Legend of Grimrock - PC
3. Legend of Grimrock 2 - PC
4. Shovel Knight - Wii U
5. Yakuza: Like a Dragon - PS4
6. Yoshi's Island - SNES
7. Vectorman 2 - Genesis
8. Super Mario Sunshine - GC
9. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest - GC
10. Bomberman '93 - TG-16
11. Cannon Fodder - PC
12. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei - Saturn
13. Dragonborne - Game Boy
14. Rock n' Roll Racing - PC
15. The Lost Vikings - PC
16. Blackthorne - PC
17. Contra III: The Alien Wars - SNES
18. Bravely Default II - Switch
19. Axelay - SNES
20. Ryse: Son of Rome - XBOne
21. Killer Instinct (2013) - XBOne
22. Heretic Kingdoms: The Inquisition - PC
23. Thief: The Dark Project - PC
24. Killer Instinct - XBOne
25. Killer instinct 2 - XBOne
26. Record of Lodoss War: Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth - PC
27. Thief 2: The Metal Age - PC
28. Wing Commander II - PC
29. Wing Commander III - PC
30. The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV - Switch
31. Shadow Man Remastered - PC
32. Wing Commander: Privateer - PC
33. Salt and Sanctuary - Switch
34. The Elder Scrolls: Arena - PC
35. The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall - PC
36. Resident Evil Village - PC
37. SaGa Frontier Remastered - Switch
38. Metaloid: Origin - Switch
39. SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions - Switch
40. Metro Exodus: The Two Colonels - PC
41. Metro Exodus: Sam's Story - PC
42. Panzer Paladin - Switch
43. Returnal - PS5
44. Dark Void Zero - DSiWare
45. Panzer Dragoon Saga - Saturn
46. Magic Knight Rayearth - Saturn
47. Cathedral - Switch
48. Final Fantasy VII Remake: INTERmission - PS5
49. Eterium - PC
50. A Street Cat's Tale - Switch

51. Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling - Switch
52. Banner of the Maid - Switch
53. CrossCode - Switch
54. Total Annihilation: The Core Contingency - PC
55. Ultima Underworld - PC
56. Betrayal at Krondor - PC
57. Assassin's Creed: Origins - PC
58. Axiom Verge 2 - Switch
59. Elderborn - PC
60. Hellbound - PC
61. Wargroove - Switch
62. Eye of the Beholder - PC

Eye of the Beholder is the first of a trilogy of Dungeon Master clones using the AD&D ruleset. The first two were created by Westwood in their pre-Command & Conquer days, while the third was created by SSI when Westwood left over creative differences (which would begat Lands of Lore). It ends up being the rare game where the AD&D mechanics work fully in your favor and causes it to be probably the most approachable Dungeon Master derivative I've encountered yet (minus some obnoxiously tiny secret buttons on the last couple of floors required to progress).

Like all Dungeon Master games the story is razor thin; you're hired by the lords of Waterdeep to take out Xanathos, the titular beholder hiding out beneath the city who is planning to do bad stuff. Your party of four must delve through twelve levels of dungeon to find and slay Xanathos. At the start you create your four party members from the races and classes available in stock AD&D. The game's experience curve is such that everyone will end between 8 and 9 if single classed (and in fact there are level limits as well; mages will cap and still gain experience). You can also add up to two NPCs, although due to how Dungeon Master mechanics work they aren't really worthwhile and take experience away.

Like all Dungeon Master games things act in real time on a grid. Your front two members can attack in melee while everyone else must be ranged weapons or spells. To cast a spell your caster must have their focus in one hand and you activate the focus to cast (select the appropriate spell and a target if appropriate). You'll need to find keys, flip levers and push switches, and navigate around hazards. There's a handful of special encounters that add some story, but for the most part it is a lonely trek.

Now, since the game is in real time you need to take advantage of the fact that everything but your movement has a cooldown. This lets you do the combat dance where you attack an enemy and strafe away, as enemies have a cooldown after every move (which includes turning). In most Dungeon Master games this is critical, but it actually loses some importance here (which is good, as the tunnels tend to be too narrow to pull it off without a long retreat first). The thing is, AD&D's hit mechanics means your characters can end up having an extremely low chance of being hit. The dance becomes more important later when enemies have spells.

One thing I notice was the density of puzzles was lower than average; I think this comes from the designers not really liking to use the "weigh a pressure plate down" mechanic (though it does get used once at the beginning of the game). This reduces the number of puzzles available to them, so it's mostly just enjoying navigating a complex dungeon. You definitely want to be making your own map, as the dungeon is complicated enough that you won't be able to keep it all in your head. And don't forget to keep your save file for import into the second game.


Interesting. I always thought the game was more like Wizardry than Dungeon Master. It sounds pretty approachable, and I may have to give it a shot.
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by REPO Man Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:05 pm

MrPopo wrote:
marurun wrote:
REPO Man wrote:Really wish those old-school Gold Box games would get released on modern consoles.


They would not work well on console without some adjustments due to how combat movement works. Also, I don’t see console players accepting old PC game graphics readily. They often lack the charm of console and arcade graphics.

Pool of Radiance was already ported to console: the NES.


Also EOB1 was ported to Super NES and Sega CD
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marurun
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by marurun Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:48 pm

REPO Man wrote:
MrPopo wrote:Pool of Radiance was already ported to console: the NES.


Also EOB1 was ported to Super NES and Sega CD


EOB aren’t Gold Box games. They don’t use the Gold Box engine. And the NES port of PoR lacked critical diagonal movement in combat. That’s not ok.
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by REPO Man Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:52 pm

I was actually using Gold Box as a catch-all for all the old AD&D dungeon crawlers.
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MrPopo
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by MrPopo Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:22 am

marurun wrote:
REPO Man wrote:
MrPopo wrote:Pool of Radiance was already ported to console: the NES.


Also EOB1 was ported to Super NES and Sega CD


EOB aren’t Gold Box games. They don’t use the Gold Box engine. And the NES port of PoR lacked critical diagonal movement in combat. That’s not ok.

You only need diagonal movement until you unlock fireball.
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marurun
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Re: Games Beaten 2021

by marurun Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:17 am

REPO Man wrote:I was actually using Gold Box as a catch-all for all the old AD&D dungeon crawlers.


And you were doing so incorrectly. There was at least one early AD&D game that was associated with and could interact with characters from the Gold Box games and didn’t use the engine, namely Hillsfar, but notably it didn’t ship in a gold box. The only SSI games that shipped in gold boxes were the ones that used the Gold Box engine. SSI did use similar box designs in most of their titles, though, and I could see some people being confused by that.
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