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Jagosaurus
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Jagosaurus Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:33 pm

Sarge wrote:The creator says it's 720x480.


Just rewatched the link I posted. He does say HDMI to VGA should be 4:3.

Interesting. 720x480 elsewhere but gameplay in 4:3 window?

Knowing I can tinker with my TV settings on 480p HDMI has me feeling good.
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Sarge Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:48 pm

Well, the ratio apparently doesn't have a lot to do with actual pixel count. For instance, 4:3 mode on my PS3 outputs 720x480. I know that my component input also detects a PS2 signal as 720x480 as well. I think that's considered the standard resolution for DVD material (EDIT: Survey says YES).

I might have a way to get around this, though. I picked up an HDMI to component adapter a while back, and I might be able to just bypass the scaling issues over HDMI entirely, because I don't think I'm getting the same overscan issues over component. I'll probably give that a shot with my PS3 tonight, and see what happens.

EDIT 2: To clarify, I think where I'm getting tripped up is the fact that with CRT, pixels don't have to be square. I mean, the NES/SNES uses a 256x224 resolution, and that's not 4:3, but on a CRT it shows as a 4:3 aspect ratio due to the way it is displayed. The horizontal resolution would be a little more stretched than the vertical. Likewise, DVD wouldn't have to store its data as an exact 4:3 pixel count; it would go with whatever timing it could get away with. 720x480 was chosen, although apparently only 711 pixels maximum are possible because of the timing intervals.
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Jagosaurus Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:31 pm

Welcome to the welcome world of getting the best resolution out of 15 to 30 year old hardware :lol: . You also get into some interesting handshakes between TVs and end devices. I have some DVDs that require different settings (to get either 16:9 or 4:3) depending on TV & player.

I don't play golf because I'm a perfectionist and there's no half way for me. I'd obsess. I'm actually trying to go halfway here and future proof myself for HDMI without going "full RGB" (Robert Downing Jr voice).

I am thinking RetroTink 2x for 5th gen and back (using s video for most, component for PS1 on a PS2). Then a simple, yet lag friendly, component to HDMI converter for 6th gen. Versus the full jump Framemeister... which would encourage me to start spending $100s more on RGB cables. Those two 2 options are $150 vs $700+ in my case. My newer Vizios only have 1 component slot. I see those disappearing soon.

What component to HDMI device did you pick up? I have 3 saved in my Amazon wish list that seemed to get ok reviews from retro gamers.
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Sarge Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:23 pm

Well, the one I was referring to goes the other way, HDMI to component. I ended up buying one super cheap when Radio Shack was going out of business. I haven't put it through its paces, though; in fact, I've barely used it. It's currently sitting in the packaging again in my closet. The stuff I've got that goes the other way is a Blackweb S-Video/Composite to HDMI converter (terrible on composite side for NES/Genesis), and a VGA to HDMI converter from Radio Shack that seems pretty decent.

I'm very much thinking about grabbing the Retrotink as well, if I can get it to play nice with my current 48" screen.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Sarge Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 pm

Okay, did some testing. Survey says: my TV does have overscan with 480p sources that identify as 720x480, regardless of port. I just never really noticed it before on the Wii/PS2 because the games there handle overscan areas like you'd expect. The playable area generally resides within the screen boundaries, with a small black border. Mario Galaxy violated this rule, but I don't think it matters all that much. I noticed it more in the USB Loader GX menu, and there's an overscan adjustment in there that gave it away.

That being said, there's a possibility that, much like the PS2 stuff, feeding this into the Retrotink 2X will display the signal in such a manner that the overscan doesn't actually matter. This kind of stuff is super frustrating, though, and I'm not sure I want to take a risk on it if I get bad overscan issues. I really need to see some more reviews and analysis, and make sure it's not an issue with TVs similar to mine. For the record, my set is a Samsung JU6500 set.

Oh, and don't bother with that Radio Shack HDMI to component. It looks pretty terrible, and didn't really want to play nicely at all with some of the resolutions in question. Even at a standard 720p, the signal looked rather fuzzy and the colors were off. I think it's something that would be handy in a pinch, but not good enough for long term use at all.

EDIT: Also, don't bother with that Blackweb thingy, either. Lots of color bleed I didn't notice elsewhere. I got SNES to look okay, but the Duo looked pretty bad over S-Video. I'm very much starting to think that, if the Retrotink 2X doesn't fit my needs, I may have to couple it with an OSSC. At least there I can push out resolutions that my TV will scale properly.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Jagosaurus Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:26 pm

By overscanning, are you referring to the colored jail bars on right and left of gameplay?

I'll get device, and see what my Vizio receives it as. Either way, confident I can get 480p to 4:3 with my testing results this far.

Tonight planning on pre-ordering & also picking up s video cables for my Saturn & Dreamcast 8)

Still researching simple component to HDMI converters for 480p 6th gen games, but not a huge priority. For $35 dollars though, I'll probably buy a unit to test and report back.
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Sarge Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:55 pm

Ah, sorry, I've been dealing with these things so long that I don't describe well what overscanning is. Overscan is a relic from the days of CRT TVs. Broadcasters would have "safe" space in which they could assume that a consumer TV would be able to show the image without lopping off text or important image information. The rest of the signal is unviewable, cut off at the edges. There was just an assumption that stuff in that region would be junk or unviewable. This varied by set, of course, but for the most part, a consumer TV could be assumed to cut off a certain portion of the image, regardless.

In the context of the NES, think about the junk pixels at the border. Many TVs actually didn't show this region, it was in the overscan portion of the signal.

Well, I've got that going on with my TV for SD signals. They've effectively implemented the SD display portion as an older TV would, which means digital signals (like 480p over HDMI) will have the borders clipped. So on my set, for example, setting the SNES9x resolution to 720x480 cuts off some of the image, enough that you can barely see the bottom of the menu bar when you bring it up.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
“History isn't just the story of bad people doing bad things. It's quite as much a story of people trying to do good things. But somehow, something goes wrong.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Sarge Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:15 pm

After more testing on my composite input, I'm starting to think the small amount of overscan isn't going to hurt me. So I'll end up ordering this piece of kit at some point.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
“History isn't just the story of bad people doing bad things. It's quite as much a story of people trying to do good things. But somehow, something goes wrong.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Jagosaurus Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:17 am

On Mike's site, further confirms no 480p

http://www.retrotink.com

"Video inputs: component, S-video and composite
Video formats: 240p/480i, 288i/576i, NTSC and PAL color"

You can order directly from there. Not sure if it will be filled by other respective resellers. Mini HDMI is $2 cheaper. I think I have one lying around... somewhere
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Re: Out of the Gate Running - RetroTink 2X...

by Sarge Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 pm

Yeah, it won't take 480p; I've seen a few reviews noting as such. It only takes 240p and 480i (and the PAL equivalents).

I don't actually need to push 480p through the device, though; my TV does a surprisingly good job with 480p over component. I think if I'm running component, if my TV weren't up to snuff then I'd be looking at the OSSC.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
“History isn't just the story of bad people doing bad things. It's quite as much a story of people trying to do good things. But somehow, something goes wrong.” -- C.S. Lewis
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