Page 2 of 5

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:15 am
by dsheinem
dunpeal2064 wrote:Well, assuming your console is modded, then you are pulling an S-Video signal straight from the unit. (Unless you are converting from SCART/RGB?)

This cable would pull a pure RGB signal from the unit, and convert that to Component. Assuming the converter isn't of poor quality, the image should be better than what you currently have.


I guess what I didn't know was if the unit COULD output RGB without some kind of internal modifications (if then).

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:17 am
by theclaw
CRTGAMER wrote:I anticipate the proposed new 3rd party cable will not just be wires, but have some sort of conversion PCB inline to get the "RGB Sync On Green" to work as regular component 480i. Boxes are already out there that do this, a simple matter of adapting the different cable connections.


sync on green? PS2 and PS3 are only sync on green, in 31khz mode (480p).
480i and 240p use composite video as sync.

Though neither system should benefit notably from this kind of cable. They already have component.

dsheinem wrote:I guess what I didn't know was if the unit COULD output RGB without some kind of internal modifications (if then).


Easy enough to test. 32X requires RGB input, all compatible Genesis models must have it.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:24 am
by dunpeal2064
Wait, is this thing going to have a linedoubler built in as well?

That could be quite nice.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:38 am
by samsonlonghair
Maybe revealing extra detail in Genesis games isn't a good idea. I understand that some programmers were taking advantage of TV blur to pull off pseudo-transparency and other such effects. Take a look at the shadows in NBA JAM to see what I mean:
http://youtu.be/PjAVCDO3QGM?t=3m50s

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:00 pm
by MrPopo
dunpeal2064 wrote:Wait, is this thing going to have a linedoubler built in as well?

That could be quite nice.

No; from the site you're getting the exact same signal you're getting before, just a different colorspace.

And holy shit, the sound in Genesis NBA Jam is terrible.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:04 pm
by Taintedreality
Getting the best video quality out of these older systems is always so daunting. I'm currently trying to turn my room into a gaming den with all of my systems out at once and working on my HDTV. Component initially sounds like a good idea, but the amount of options and opinions on how to get the best video quality on these things is almost scary! I really wanna see demo tests to see what these cables are capable of, but I imagine that can be difficult if not done in person. If they blew me away, I might donate.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:23 pm
by dunpeal2064
MrPopo wrote:
dunpeal2064 wrote:Wait, is this thing going to have a linedoubler built in as well?

That could be quite nice.

No; from the site you're getting the exact same signal you're getting before, just a different colorspace.

And holy shit, the sound in Genesis NBA Jam is terrible.


You are right, I misread the FAQ. However, it sounds like they do have plans for a linedoubler, it just won't be bundled into this cable.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:15 pm
by theclaw
samsonlonghair wrote:Maybe revealing extra detail in Genesis games isn't a good idea. I understand that some programmers were taking advantage of TV blur to pull off pseudo-transparency and other such effects. Take a look at the shadows in NBA JAM to see what I mean:
http://youtu.be/PjAVCDO3QGM?t=3m50s


The bigger picture is composite is "dumb". It blurs everything without fail, no regard for common sense.

Wouldn't be so much of an issue if we could get Genesis composite to remotely rival Saturn.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:20 pm
by nightrnr
I'm actually less concerned with video quality (although that is hopefully a benefit). I am more concerned with controller lag when hooked up to modern TVs.
If these cables solve that issue, then I am interested.

Re: Retrovision Making Component Cables for SNES/Genesis

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:22 pm
by Ziggy587
I don't want to sound really harsh towards these cables, because I think it's an awesome product to make available for people, but my suggestion would be to stay away from them. I've said these same things over multiple threads, so I'm not gonna go into detail (the SNES YPbPr thread has most of it). For the SNES, if you're using a CRT, just stick with S-Video. If you think "upgrading" to component is gonna wow you, you'll be disappointed. If you're using an HDTV, it's a whole other ballpark. There's more things that come into play. I'll just leave it at: If you REALLY want it to look good, cough up the money on an XRGB mini. Anything else is a stop gap.

My suggestion would be the same for the Genesis, but that console can't output S-Video without being modified. This cable would be perfect for those that want something better than composite but cannot modify the console themselves. Same goes for the SNES if your new HDTV doesn't have S-Video. That is, of course, depending on how much these cables end up costings versus how much other (possibly better or equal) solutions would cost.

dsheinem wrote:I guess what I am asking is: would plugging this cable into a component connection on a CRT TV give me a better picture on that TV than the S-video cable I am using now?


In my experiences, no. You'll likely not notice a difference at all. YPbPr offers basically no advantage over S-Video for ~240 video. If we're talking DVDs or HD content, completely different story.




I guess to sum up what I'm saying is this: If you're already using S-Video and you're expecting component to have the same increase in quality as S-Video did over composite (or RF) then expect to be disappointed. :D




Taintedreality wrote:Getting the best video quality out of these older systems is always so daunting. I'm currently trying to turn my room into a gaming den with all of my systems out at once and working on my HDTV. Component initially sounds like a good idea, but the amount of options and opinions on how to get the best video quality on these things is almost scary! I really wanna see demo tests to see what these cables are capable of, but I imagine that can be difficult if not done in person. If they blew me away, I might donate.


Quote for truth. There's too many things to consider, and it's hard to separate opinions from facts when researching.

samsonlonghair wrote:Maybe revealing extra detail in Genesis games isn't a good idea. I understand that some programmers were taking advantage of TV blur to pull off pseudo-transparency and other such effects. Take a look at the shadows in NBA JAM to see what I mean:
http://youtu.be/PjAVCDO3QGM?t=3m50s


Another good example are the lights in the first or second stage of Streets of Rage 2, or the clouds in the background in the first level of Vectorman. Yes, these "tricks" get ruined when you step up from composite. But IMO, for the Genesis, using S-Video, RGB or converting to component is worth it. The pros outweigh the cons. If you look up the definition of awful, most sources will cite the composite output from a Genesis.