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Exhuminator
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by Exhuminator Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:35 pm

nullPointer wrote:If you weren't using multiple save files you could literally find yourself X hours into an unwinnable game

I don't know if the PSP version mitigates this in anyway, but the PS1 original was notorious for its Riovanes Castle chain battle sequence. It was possible to save during that section, and end up in an unwinnable situation. It happened to many people.
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by dunpeal2064 Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:07 am

Yep, my first time though I was stuck in that sequence for a long time, and a good buddy of mine had to actually restart. I think it took me around 20-25 attempts to finally luck my way through.

Its a pain, but at least the game is well worth working through that quirk.
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by Exhuminator Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:11 am

dunpeal2064 wrote:Its a pain, but at least the game is well worth working through that quirk.


Yep. For my playthrough, Riovannes castle was the hardest part. Everything before and after that was considerably easier. I think Matsuno just wanted to separate the casual players from the dedicated players with Riovannes. Hard to believe that design wasn't intentional.
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by nullPointer Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:58 pm

Dudes ... I'm (pretty much) in that part of the game right now. I'm not quite to Riovanes Castle yet. I have a couple of battle markers to hit along the way, but that's the quest I'm on right now - to rescue Alma from Riovanes Castle. Thanks for the insight and for the heads up! I'm doing some grinding before hand though (even prior to this new insight). I took a peak at the next battle (it's the protect mission in Zeklaus Desert battling several behemoths), and realized that it might be handy to capture a behemoth as a pet/battle companion. I have an Orator who's right on the verge of having the Tame command, so I'm leveling her up in an attempt to capture that dark behemoth. We'll see how that goes, lol!
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by Exhuminator Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:13 pm

Just be sure you've got a save outside Riovannes. When you get the option to save inside the castle, do so on a different save.

It's quite possible the PSP version has rebalanced this part of the game though. Who knows, you may have an easier time on PSP.
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by nullPointer Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:44 pm

Exhuminator wrote:Just be sure you've got a save outside Riovannes. When you get the option to save inside the castle, do so on a different save.

It's quite possible the PSP version has rebalanced this part of the game though. Who knows, you may have an easier time on PSP.

I think it's the same actually. I haven't yet fought a losing battle of this type to the bitter end (as in all party members defeated), but I have fought these battles to the point in which my defeat is inevitable at which point I've reset the system. This could possibly be considered rage-quitting (it's not without its frustrations, lol!), but mostly I just hate to waste any more time on a losing battle than absolutely necessary. At any rate reloading after a reset loads the mid-battle save as expected. I suppose it might offer a different option if I allow for full defeat though. If I get to the point of being super-stuck I'm sure I'll find out. :|

Edit: As a side note, I'm sure starting to envy those of you who opted for slightly shorter games this month! :)
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by Exhuminator Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:57 pm

nullPointer wrote:I think it's the same actually.


I just looked it up and it turns out the PSP version is possibly more difficult than the PS1 version. There's quite a bit of differences between the PSP and PS1 version actually. I bolded the relevant difficulty parts:

Retranslation: practically all dialogues, locations, characters/monsters, items, abilities and jobs have been changed (e.g. Priest is now called White Mage; Cidolfas Orlandu is now called Cidolfus Orlandeau); English versions now have text in a style similar to the "medieval" Old English.
Game difficulty (for the English versions) adjusted to match the original Japanese version.
Increased JP cost for most abilities and for job unlocking.

Additional story battles, side-quests and events.
Multiplayer system via Ad Hoc Mode.
New items (most obtained through Multiplayer mode).
All game-breaking glitches have been fixed: Infinite JP glitch, Item Duplication glitch, Poaching glitch, Ghost Chocobo riding glitch, Quickening glitch and Jump glitches.
The special quotes when using abilities during battle (such as White Magic and Swordplay) have been removed from the US/EU versions of War of the Lions (still present in the Japanese version, though).
The generic unit's quote was restored, and can be viewed by pressing the Select button on the unit's name.
Oil status, which had no effect in the original game, now works: it doubles Fire damage received.*
Full animated movies with voices and subtitles now replace some specific key story cutscenes (Japanese version does not contain voice acting); this includes the intro and ending sequences (which were CG movies in the original game).
Job Demonstration Movie and "Lion War Movie", both seen in the original game by waiting at the title screen, are not present in War of the Lions.
When choosing Ramza's birthdate at the start of the game, the game now displays which Zodiac sign will result from the date entered.
New calendar that displays dates in the Zodiac format (e.g. Aries 12) rather than using the Gregorian Calendar (January to December).
Two new jobs added: Onion Knight and Dark Knight.*
Two new characters added: Luso from Final Fantasy Tactics A2 and Balthier from Final Fantasy XII.*
Cloud Strife can be recruited earlier in Chapter IV.*
Roster size increased from 16 to 24.*
Unyielding Blade skills from Meliadoul, Folmarv and Orlandeau have been upgraded to damage enemies even if they're not using the specific piece of equipment (although will still fail if said enemy has the Safeguard skill); this means monsters can also be damaged by such skills.*
Some status-change icons have been changed.
Every time a spell is cast or a certain action is performed, the game slows down.


Source: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fina ... ifferences

*These things could help make the going easier though.
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by ESauced Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:58 pm

nullPointer wrote:
Edit: As a side note, I'm sure starting to envy those of you who opted for slightly shorter games this month! :)


Hey, it’s never too late to quit like I did. :lol:
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by nullPointer Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:32 pm

You know, I'd looked at this list prior to starting the game when I was still trying to decide which version to go with, but looking at it again now is certainly enlightening, especially since I'd forgotten some things. My random thoughts on all of this (nullPointer casts Wall of Text):

Exhuminator wrote:Retranslation: practically all dialogues, locations, characters/monsters, items, abilities and jobs have been changed (e.g. Priest is now called White Mage; Cidolfas Orlandu is now called Cidolfus Orlandeau); English versions now have text in a style similar to the "medieval" Old English.

I've mentioned it a few times, but it warrants another; the dialogue in this game is great. It's some of my favorite dialogue in any FF game that I've played namely I-II and IV-IX. It's repeated (but tasteful!) use of the derogatory phrase 'whoreson' goes a long way in this capacity. :mrgreen: But seriously there have been a couple of in-game quotes I've almost written down due to the inspired turns of phrase.

Exhuminator wrote:Game difficulty (for the English versions) adjusted to match the original Japanese version.
Increased JP cost for most abilities and for job unlocking.

Holy crap the difficulty thing! This makes a lot of sense actually (although I wasn't sure originally if this meant they dialed the difficulty up or down). This game is such. a. dick. about screwing over the player. Seriously if one of your team is even slightly weakened they will become a magnet for every enemy on the battle field until they are dead, dead, dead. It's kind of ridiculous actually. Enemies are also super adept about sitting just outside the range of your attackers, and/or utilizing slight variations in landscape to avoid attack. I realize it's Final Fantasy Tactics, but seriously it seems like the enemy has several advantages which are not conversely at your disposal. Through this game I've started to develop a disproportionate hatred of chocobos, due to the fact that they're one of the most unevenly balanced enemies in the entire game. In an equally leveled battle the chocobos will have superior range, speed, and damage capacities compared to your party, not to mention unlimited healing abilities. If you come across 5 or more chocobo of assorted types in a single random battle ... fugetaboutit, you better hope for some lucky breaks. Those battles are are actually harder than most of the scripted battles I've encountered.

Increased JP cost seems like the unnecessary extension of an already lengthy game ... which leads to ...

Exhuminator wrote:Multiplayer system via Ad Hoc Mode.
New items (most obtained through Multiplayer mode).

I think Square must have been really excited about this feature, but 11 years later it seems like tacked on fluff at best, and completely extraneous content at worst. But the trouble is that I also get the feeling Square intended for this mode to be used as the preferable (if not primary) means of grinding for JP. In fact the game is fully geared for that. There are both PvP and Coop multiplayer modes, but you don't receive any actual EXP in these battles; you only receive JP. Add to this the fact that they aren't randomized battles (meaning that you're not wandering around on the map from point to point just waiting for something to happen), this would also be the most efficient means of grinding for JP. The trouble of course is that your buddy has to have a working copy of the game as well, which in 2018 is certainly problematic on several levels. The fact that they added unique items to the game available only through this mode seems like pure, "Eff you, pay me!" shenanigans on the part of Square. Adding insult to injury, this is the only way to get some of the best weapons in the game (i.e the ones unique to the new classes they added).

I actually do have a second working PSP somewhere at home, and I've been tempted more than once to load it up just to see what the multi-player is all about, but then I would also need to be operating two games worth of FF: WotL which just seems ... excessive to me. I like the game; I'm not sure I like it that much. :D

Exhuminator wrote:Full animated movies with voices and subtitles now replace some specific key story cutscenes (Japanese version does not contain voice acting); this includes the intro and ending sequences (which were CG movies in the original game).

Much like the in-game dialogue, the cut scenes in this game are really good. I guess you might expect that from Square/Final Fantasy, but stylistically these are different from anything else I've seen in the series. To my eye they look like a melding of anime and LotR era Ralph Bakshi overlaid on a textured surface like a medieval relief wood carving. The result is quite striking. The voice acting runs the gamut, but nothing stands out as bad, melodramatic, or amateurish. The principle voice work on the main characters of Ramza and Delita is quite well done (I'd say the VA for Delita wins the award for best actor in the game).

Exhuminator wrote:Two new jobs added: Onion Knight and Dark Knight.*

I think these classes can end up being great, but the requirements for getting there are very steep. Onion Knight doesn't become super useful (to my understanding) until you've mastered almost every other job in the game ... at which point it's super-OP. I'm actually attempting to turn my Ramza into a Dark Knight, but in order to make it viable you basically need to start angling in that direction pretty early in the game. Here are those requirements: Master Knight, Master Black Mage, Level 8 Ninja, Level 8 Samurai, Level 8 Dragoon, and Level 8 Geomancer (plus some weird kill requirements). Of course Ninja, Samurai, Dragoon, and Geomancer each have their own requirements for entry as well. It better be worth it, lol!

Exhuminator wrote:Roster size increased from 16 to 24.*

I find this one interesting, because it seems to me of questionable importance. Although I've developed a fairly big party roster (partly due to the fact that Boco the chocobo never stops breeding, thus filling my roster with nigh on useless chocobo offspring ... seriously Boco keep it in your pants buddy), but for the most part I have a 5 person 'kill squad' that I use for almost everything. And if I do happen to hit an encounter that calls for the use of a specialized job class, the chances are that I can temporarily change the jobs for one of my principle party members. Are there any points in the game which benefit from having large party sizes? At this point my 'main party' is probably twice as high in level as the rest of my generics/useless chocobo children.


ESauced wrote:Hey, it’s never too late to quit like I did. :lol:

But ... but ... what about my precious sunken cost fallacy!? :shock: Nah, for real though I do enjoy the game. I'm (relatively) certain I'll finish it, but it definitely won't be within this month, and I have had to take measures to manage the burnout factor (last night was the first time I'd picked up the game in two days). There's no way I'd have finished it on standard console though. As I originally suspected the 'pick-up-and-play' portability factor of of the PSP has been a boon in this regard.
Last edited by nullPointer on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

by Exhuminator Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:08 pm

Not to be pedantic, but I don't think Final Fantasy Tactics is too long. I looked up my completion time of the PS1 version (beat it in 2014), I put 29 hours in to finish. That was without using a strategy guide or walkthrough either. 29 hours isn't much longer than the 27 hours I just spent beating Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings for this very TR. In contrast, I spent 44 hours beating Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together a year ago. Now if you wanna talk about some unfair ridicu-hard stuff, Tactics Ogre is the SRPG to play. I still have PTSD from the "Hanging Gardens" section. :?
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