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Jagosaurus
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by Jagosaurus Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:38 pm

You know... honestly... I had forgot that composite on a CRT is definitely not bad looking. I was always a huge fan of s video.
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Ziggy587
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by Ziggy587 Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:22 pm

Composite can look OK. It all depends on the source and the TV. For example, the Genesis composite looks horrible but the SNES composite isn't too bad. The NES can be bad depending on the game. I've noticed that Castlevania doesn't look bad at all, but SMB annoys me with how much noise is around the sprites. Also depends on how the TV handles the composite signal. No TV will fix how bad the Genesis composite is, but if you had a decent enough signal to begin with a comb filter can do magical things. Here's a couple of random images I just found on the net...

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I'm not sure what the deal is, but I assume most consumer TVs didn't have comb filters built in (although you could buy an external one). Apparently some of the Wegas do, and I assume my model does just because the first thing I tested that TV with was NES composite and I remember my initial reaction of being kind of blown away by how clear it looked compared to the Samsung.
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marurun
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by marurun Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:48 pm

And it isn’t even as simple as “Genesis bad, SNES good.” Most Genesis u it’s had poor composite out, but a few units had pretty good composite out. But there were so many minor revisions of the Genesis it can be hard to know what you need.
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Ziggy587
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by Ziggy587 Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:58 pm

Relative to other things, all Genesis revisions have poor composite video. Some are marginally better than others, but comparatively they all suck. Every once in a while I like to use composite on the Genesis so I can enjoy all of those fake transparencies and dithering effects. I like to use the Genesis 3, which probably has the best composite output of all the revisions.
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Jagosaurus
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by Jagosaurus Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:30 pm

Those shots are interesting. I honestly need to look more into comb filtering. My first time running across it in real world examples came from looking for VHS & LD solutions. Such as...

Recording VCR/LaserDisc Video

The RetroTINK-2X can be used as a video capture device but is not an optimal solution since it only incorporates a 2-D comb filter and has low tolerance to VHS errors since there is no frame-buffer for low lag operation. LaserDisc video output by a player with a built-in comb filter via S-video should work much better.


I've always heard/seen ppl mock LDs s-video option so I found that interesting.

That said, my composite on CRT comment was more aimed at composite on CRT vs composite on LCD. HUGE difference there. From decent to garbage. Oddly enough, my older 1366x768p Vizio LCD handles 240p via s video fairly decently. It is WAY better than composite.

Is any1 here running the Genesis triple bypass mod/kit?

Also on the opposite end of the spectrum... I always thought the Dreamcast & Jaguar had really clean composite signals. Anyone else notice this?

Cross post from another recent thread, but I think this MLiG vid on s vid & composite does a really good job of comparing them, even against RGB:

https://youtu.be/DPdzSsPHZEI
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Ziggy587
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by Ziggy587 Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:06 pm

I don't run the triple bypass, or any RGB bypass mods for that matter. The thing is, when you're upscaling on an HDTV, there's a big problem with noise and all that jazz. But it's not really a problem with CRTs. My one theory is that when you're upscaling the image you're also upscaling any garbage in the image. But I'm sure whatever processing is going on doesn't help. I might have already said this, but I had someone throw in some "shitty" Genesis 2 RGB SCART cables with a switcher I purchased from eBay. They included a note that said they got horrible results with it using an upscaler. I used it on my PVM and got a very clear image, no noise that I could notice.

The Dreamcast does have pretty good composite. The Saturn too, from what I remember. I wasn't blown away after getting S-Video for both of those consoles, but it's also been a few years since I've used them so maybe I'd notice more of a difference now.
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Re: How many of you are actually still using CRT TVs?

by Anapan Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:20 am

I'm running a Triple Bypass board on my Genesis 1. I installed it while recapping because I was having problems with sync on my upscalers and figured I might as well go all out if I'm opening it up. It did clean the RGB output up a bit, but I probably wouldn't have noticed if I wasn't looking for it. I use scanline filters on everything and RGB noise is only detectable with square pixels in HD on bright solid colors.
Unrelated to CRTs, but I broke my model 1 Sega CD while recapping it at the same time. It was hard to desolder and remove power board components, and I pulled something too hard. At least it's CD drive brought FirebrandX's model 1 back to life. I'm currently waiting for my Mega Everdrive Pro to arrive so I can play SCD games again.
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