Discuss Your Gaming Environments and AV Setups
DisscoStu9
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new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by DisscoStu9 Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:44 pm

Moving my setup to a new tv, my old tube finally bit it, going to use a smaller lcd hdtv in its place, so a few new things will be added, couple of things I want to upgrade to.
Right now its running ps2,ps1,xbox,nes,snes,gen,32x,DC,2600, and a few pongs. Everything is on a giant rca switch box, standard composite cables, except the 2600 and pong which go through the coax adapters.

I want to upgrade some to rgb, genesis first, so a few questions. I can grab the gen1/2 to SCART cables no problem, but from there... seems the solutions are
1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Co ... 0833672632 use these into the component slot on the tv.
2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-to-H ... AQ:US:1123
these seem to have constant issues with lacing and colors etc
3. Framemeister- Obviously the best choice, seems to take in the SCART without any issues on most tvs, way too expensive for me.

My big question is what is the advantage or the framemeister to these other 2 solutions? Is it just the smoothness of the hardware/software, or does the RGB from old stuff look THAT much better through framemeister as opposed to RGB through adapters or other boxes.

In other words whats all the scaling doing/is it necessary?
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jetto-setto
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by jetto-setto Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:08 pm

DisscoStu9 wrote:Moving my setup to a new tv, my old tube finally bit it, going to use a smaller lcd hdtv in its place, so a few new things will be added, couple of things I want to upgrade to.
Right now its running ps2,ps1,xbox,nes,snes,gen,32x,DC,2600, and a few pongs. Everything is on a giant rca switch box, standard composite cables, except the 2600 and pong which go through the coax adapters.

I want to upgrade some to rgb, genesis first, so a few questions. I can grab the gen1/2 to SCART cables no problem, but from there... seems the solutions are
1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Co ... 0833672632 use these into the component slot on the tv.
2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-to-H ... AQ:US:1123
these seem to have constant issues with lacing and colors etc
3. Framemeister- Obviously the best choice, seems to take in the SCART without any issues on most tvs, way too expensive for me.

My big question is what is the advantage or the framemeister to these other 2 solutions? Is it just the smoothness of the hardware/software, or does the RGB from old stuff look THAT much better through framemeister as opposed to RGB through adapters or other boxes.

In other words whats all the scaling doing/is it necessary?


I had that same SCART-to-HDMI box and now have the Framemeister. I was lucky enough to order it from Solaris Japan at what seems to have been its lowest price - $250-260ish or something if I remember correctly.

The little box is an okay budget solution, but honestly, as soon as I got it I decided it would have to be only temporary. The lag wasn't even the biggest problem - at least on all of my TVs, the only pixel-perfect images (or as close to that as it can manage) were static. Anything in motion looked pretty bad and basically erased the benefit of RGB.

The Framemeister is expensive, but I would expect it to hold its value fairly well, and the quality is truly fantastic. It can handle just about anything you throw at it and make it look better than ever, and of course there are added features such as scanlines that make it more versatile.
DisscoStu9
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by DisscoStu9 Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:51 am

thanks for the reply, thats about what I thought. It seems like the only way to reliably get RGB going is with the framemeister, everything else I've heard seems to add another issue, some lag or motion blur, making it not worth it.

The emulation out of my modded xbox through component is very nice if need be, but I like to do things out of the real hardware, real controllers, etc, so for now I guess it seems composite for everything will do.
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Anapan
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by Anapan Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:46 am

General concensus (and I agree) is that the second best and much cheaper solution to a framemeister is the Gonbes GBS-8200 (cga/ega/yuv) scaler. Using an SLG from Arcadeforge you can get a good image. It's deinterlacer is not great, but for 240P sources (composite included) it does a great job. It's not too picky about it's signal source from my testing either.

Do a bit of googling and considder. It't so much better than any flat-screen tv's results with raw low-resolution input, and outputting VGA it would greatly reduce lag on most displays by activating "game mode".
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bmoc
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by bmoc Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:58 am

Anapan wrote:General concensus (and I agree) is that the second best and much cheaper solution to a framemeister is the Gonbes GBS-8200 (cga/ega/yuv) scaler. Using an SLG from Arcadeforge you can get a good image. It's deinterlacer is not great, but for 240P sources (composite included) it does a great job. It's not too picky about it's signal source from my testing either.

Do a bit of googling and considder. It't so much better than any flat-screen tv's results with raw low-resolution input, and outputting VGA it would greatly reduce lag on most displays by activating "game mode".

^ This. Arcadeforge also packages the scaler, scan line generator, and sync cleaner into a single unit that is worth considering. http://arcadeforge.net/SLG-in-a-Box/SLG ... x::71.html
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Anapan
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by Anapan Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:42 pm

Small correction - it takes Component input, not Composite. You'd need an additional transcoder to get Composite into the GBS-8200
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KalessinDB
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by KalessinDB Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:51 am

I was on the fence about a Framemeister myself, but I was able to scoop a sick deal on the forums ($200 shipped! Used up my good luck for the year on that one) and my god it's so worth it. By the time you buy 3-4 lesser options at $50 a pop and get fed up with them or (in my case) start paying to modify consoles to have YPbPr output so that you can play them on your US televisions, you're starting to get to the point where you could have bought a Framemeister. Even with composite through it, it's just so gorgeous with the scanlines and everything.
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Anapan
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by Anapan Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:57 am

^ ya, that.

Looking at the prices of currently produced commercial S-Video & Composite transcoders that will support 240P, you're approaching the price of an X-RGB scaler if combined with the GBS scaler, and a SLG-3000 with shipping charges. The main problem I found with the GBS scalers was the sub-par/worst I've ever seen deinterlacing (not important with 240P sources). For what the GBS costs and dealing with only oldschool consoles outputting 240P, it's capable of equivalent performance at a much smaller price.

Even the Framemeister does not do deinterlacing that well, tho it's really impressive it's constant 1.7 frame lag on a 60FPS source. When deinterlacing, The Framemeister seems to disable it's scanline output and it becomes very apparent that it's a scaler using bilinear (the crappiest) algorythm. Realtime deinterlacing artifacts that are not detectable by most people are immediately problematic to my friend and I in 480I content.

The better solution of using a line-doubler (which are antiquated and no-longer produced AFAICT) is much more expensive. Whenever I decide I'd like to buy a line douber, none seem to be for sale...

Out of the 6 Composite to HD devices I've bought, the X-RGB Framemeister is easily the best, and the X-RGB3 was second best. All the others failed.
I think I have a device better than the ones you pictured first in my closet unopened and never used. I'll probably never plug it in. It was a last-minute buy from a free-shipping flashcart/modchip site. I'm out of town now, so I don't even know it's name, but I've heard some praise about it. PM for more info, DisscoStu9, and you can have it for cost-of-shipping from Canada when I get back home in a few days. Apparently, it does really well with PSP video scaling - it has a special mode for that. That's no longer relevant to me since the new Framemeister firmware lets me customize many video setups for each console. This is why it's now free+shipping, and a report of it's effectiveness would be appreciated upon arrival if you decide to try it.
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Kidpanda
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Re: new setup, RGB/Scart/VGA/Framemeister questions

by Kidpanda Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:57 am

If you're using 480i sources, use Micomsoft's XPC-1. Works wonders on 480i sources.
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