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Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:05 pm
by isiolia
samsonlonghair wrote: Yamaha also includes a "YPAO" that (in theory) should help you setup your system automatically. This "YPAO" is a little plastic microphone that somehow tunes the system for you, but to be honest, I never used mine. I trust my own ears more than the five dollar microphone. I figure, what's the point of having a thousand options if you're going to leave everything set to automatic anyway? I defeats the purpose, don't you think?


Near any modern receiver includes something like that, including the Sony linked. They call theirs DCAC. Other brands tend to use Audyssey.

I'm not sure all of them actually have the ability to adjust all the same things manually - basic stuff like speaker size/distance/level, sure, but room correction takes a multi-band EQ that may not be there ('course, it may only be something higher end models do anyway).

Similarly, their "Bravia Sync" to control other devices is just HDMI CEC, and is basically part of the HDMI spec (port/cable anyway, devices can opt not to implement it).

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:22 pm
by samsonlonghair
isiolia wrote:
samsonlonghair wrote: Yamaha also includes a "YPAO" that (in theory) should help you setup your system automatically. This "YPAO" is a little plastic microphone that somehow tunes the system for you, but to be honest, I never used mine. I trust my own ears more than the five dollar microphone. I figure, what's the point of having a thousand options if you're going to leave everything set to automatic anyway? I defeats the purpose, don't you think?


Near any modern receiver includes something like that, including the Sony linked. They call theirs DCAC. Other brands tend to use Audyssey.

I'm not sure all of them actually have the ability to adjust all the same things manually - basic stuff like speaker size/distance/level, sure, but room correction takes a multi-band EQ that may not be there ('course, it may only be something higher end models do anyway).

You're right. Most modern receivers do this. The point I'm trying to make here is that this defeats the purpose of Yamaha giving the user granular control just to automate the whole matter. The SONY receivers approach from the opposite direction; they assume that the consumer has little interest in such granular control. It makes more sense from SONY's direction.

To draw a comparison, imagine that a photographer buys a top-of-the-line Nikon with a very fast shutter speed, an ultra-sensitive CCD to utilize high ISO settings with minimal grain, and variable Aperture control. The photographer then sets the camera to automatic mode and never properly utilizes the features he paid so much money for. How much sense does that make?

The point I'm trying to make isn't really about the cheezy little setup microphone anyway. The point is that one receiver is better for users who favor fine-tuning their system; the other receiver is better suited to the plug-n-play crowd. Either way is a valid preference.

isiolia wrote:Similarly, their "Bravia Sync" to control other devices is just HDMI CEC, and is basically part of the HDMI spec (port/cable anyway, devices can opt not to implement it).

You're right again; CEC is a standard part of the HDMI spec. I even said specifically...
Now to be fair, the Yamaha probably includes the same function, but you're going to have to navigate the menu to program the Yamaha receiver to do this.

The difference is implementation. SONY just assumes the consumer wants all this setup to work straight out of the gate with no need to change a single setting. Yamaha allows the consumer to select this option somewhere in the menu tree. Once again, one receiver is better for users who favor fine-tuning their system; the other receiver is better suited to the plug-n-play crowd. Once again, either way is a valid preference.

Any restaurant can serve you a hamburger, but they don't all taste the same, right? :wink:

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:33 pm
by SpaceBooger
samsonlonghair wrote:
SpaceBooger wrote:My okyno 7.2 receiver from 2007 is dying. Any video, and therefore audio too, going through it stutters and I don't have this problem with anything directly plugged into the tv.
I am on a budget, under $300, and will only use it for tv/movies not really music. I am looking for advise on these two receivers (fyu, my tv is only 780 not 1080 or 4k)

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-1015w ... Id=4914601

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-725 ... Id=5017800

I think the cheaper one is fine and the other is not worth the extra money for what I need...right?
So, any advise?

Hi Booger, How's the fam? You still encouraging the little one to get interested in retro gaming?

Stuttering video can sometimes be a symptom of an overheating receiver. Does it get warm when you're using it? I'm assuming that you haven't changed the location of your Onkyo, so the amount of airflow hasn't changed. Your old receiver must be long out of warranty, so there's no harm in busting out the screwdriver and taking the case off your Onkyo. See if you can clean out the dust from the inside. While you're in there, give it a quick visual inspection for things like leaky capacitors and broken solder. I think 2007~ish was the timeframe when manufacturers were transitioning from lead solder to lead-free solder. Some of the electronic stuff from this timeframe had bad soldering because the manufacturers hadn't refined their lead-free process yet. But that's not really what you asked for, is it?

SONY receivers vs Yahmaha receivers

You didn't ask about fixing the old one; you asked about buying a new one. Let's talk about SONY receivers vs Yahmaha receivers. I have owned both, and I feel confident that I can give you a meaningful impression of one vs the other.

Design Philosophy

Having owned both, I can say that SONY receivers are built with a different design philosophy and a different user experience in mind compared to Yamaha receivers. SONY builds a wide range of products that offer a good value proposition to the consumer, and SONY receivers are no exception. For the price range, SONY receivers offer an excellent value. Can you buy a better receiver? Sure you can! There are myriad better receivers, but they all cost more money. I see that the SONY receiver you linked is currently on sale for two hundred dollars. I feel confident in saying that you won't find a better brand new receiver at the two hundred dollar price point than what SONY is offering.

Yamaha includes every possible feature into their receivers. For this reason, Yamaha receivers always look really attractive on a spreadsheet. Name a feature you want out of your receiver; chances are the Yamaha receiver includes this feature. The Yamaha receiver can decode every kind of surround sound encoding and video format you can name (plus a dozen more you never new existed). A Yamaha receiver is the swiss army knife of the Audio/Video world. The Yamaha can do practically everything, but it isn't necessarily the best at doing anything. Sometimes Yamaha falls short on the implementation. Does it have bluetooth? Sure it does. Will that bluetooth connect to your phone? Eventually. Does the Yamaha have a USB port? Sure it does. Will that USB port charge your device while syncing? Maybe.

User Experience

The user experience between a SONY receiver and a Yamaha receiver may seem similar, but they're really worlds apart. The Yamaha receiver gives you a hundred thousand options to tune every detail exactly to your liking. The menu tree is laid out in a logical fashion, but it helps to have the manual handy for reference. Yamaha also includes a "YPAO" that (in theory) should help you setup your system automatically. This "YPAO" is a little plastic microphone that somehow tunes the system for you, but to be honest, I never used mine. I trust my own ears more than the five dollar microphone. I figure, what's the point of having a thousand options if you're going to leave everything set to automatic anyway? I defeats the purpose, don't you think?

The SONY receiver gives a completely different user experience. SONY designs their receiver to be setup and ready to play your music as quickly and simply as possible. Everything is plug and play; don't overthink it. You could probably setup the whole shebang without looking at the manual twice. For instance, If you turn on your Blu-ray player, then your SONY receiver will turn on, switch to the Blu-ray input, and turn on your television too. You don't have to program the SONY receiver to do that; it just assumes that's what you want to do. Now to be fair, the Yamaha probably includes the same function, but you're going to have to navigate the menu to program the Yamaha receiver to do this.

Conclusion

This may sound like I'm putting the SONY receiver above the Yamaha, but I'm not. The truth is, I personally enjoyed spending days on end fine-tuning my Yamaha receiver. I admit it was frustrating sometimes, but it was also satisfying when I got every aspect of my surround system set up exactly the way I wanted it. I'm also sufficiently self-aware to know that not every consumer wants what I want. I think most consumers wouldn't mind one bit for the SONY receiver to hold their hand through setup. The SONY consumer will be playing music and movies while the Yamaha consumer is still fiddling with settings buried four levels deep in the menu tree.

Buy the Yamaha receiver if you desire exacting control over every aspect of your surround system; Buy the SONY receiver if you want to forget you own a sound system while you watch the Avengers save the Universe. 8)

That was awesome. Thanks!
I went ahead and bought the SONY to replace the Onkyo HT-SR800. Since I was buying it with a new washing machine, and it currently is going to run on a 780p tv, I went with the cheaper one since it is 7.1 and has a good sound per your recommendation. I think the thing I will like the most about this newer system than my old one is that it has 4 HDMI inputs vs 2 and the HDMI will carry audio. My old receiver only carried video and had 2 optical inputs one for the cable box and the other for the TV. So that meant my games, Fire Stick and Blueray player were going through the HDMI in the receiver to the TV then the audio was going back out the TV and back to the receiver. This caused some of my content to not properly use the surround. Also, the SONY seems more kid proof with fewer buttons on it - my kids were always changing the input's audio settings so that the video device and audio would be two different sources... not to mention always changing the speaker levels. I think I will be happy with this. Thanks!

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:00 am
by samsonlonghair
SpaceBooger wrote:That was awesome. Thanks!
I went ahead and bought the SONY to replace the Onkyo HT-SR800. Since I was buying it with a new washing machine, and it currently is going to run on a 780p tv, I went with the cheaper one since it is 7.1 and has a good sound per your recommendation. I think the thing I will like the most about this newer system than my old one is that it has 4 HDMI inputs vs 2 and the HDMI will carry audio. My old receiver only carried video and had 2 optical inputs one for the cable box and the other for the TV. So that meant my games, Fire Stick and Blueray player were going through the HDMI in the receiver to the TV then the audio was going back out the TV and back to the receiver. This caused some of my content to not properly use the surround. Also, the SONY seems more kid proof with fewer buttons on it - my kids were always changing the input's audio settings so that the video device and audio would be two different sources... not to mention always changing the speaker levels. I think I will be happy with this. Thanks!

You're welcome.

Funny thing is I didn't even consider the number of HDMI ports. That's a valid point. Everyone here needs more inputs for all our devices afterall. :lol:

Booger, I used to do the same thing when I was a kid. I plugged in the CD player to the TV set audio inputs because I wanted to listen to bohemian rhapsody while I played Super Mario Bros 3. My family didn't understand why in the world I would do such a thing. It made perfect sense in little kid logic. Playing SMB3 is cool + Listening to Queen is cool = doing both together must be double cool. 8)

Come to think of it... I might need to try that again nowadays. I guess I haven't changed very much. :lol:

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:15 am
by marurun
My living room TV has only 3 HDMI inputs and they are all filled. Blu-Ray, SNES Classic, and Switch dock. I have the audio running out to a low-profile Kenwood home theater setup with a sub, two skinny towers, and a fan to cool the system, which is weird. Probably necessary with the lower profile.

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:52 pm
by samsonlonghair
samsonlonghair wrote:
Ziggy587 wrote:So WTF, new cars don't come with CD players!

Dude, some new cars don't even come with RADIOS! :evil:
Ziggy587 wrote:New car stereos can take control of Android and Apple phones, and you can control them using the console screen. So I was thinking, it would be awesome if someone made an Android based USB audio CD player for cars. You could control it using the console screen, and be able to read track text data, control mp3 discs, and all the amenities of a modern CD player. Does anything like this already exist? If not, here's hoping that someone will come out with such a product. Surely there's some company somewhere that realizes they can corner the market for all the people that still use CDs in 2017.

That's actually a really interesting question. I checked Google. There are a few systems that have CD players and have android head units, but it's not explicitly clear if android is directly controlling the CD player, or if it's just an android tablet slapped no top of a cheap CD/DVD player with independent hardware buttons for the CD/DVD player.. So I started to wonder if Android is even capable of playing CDs. I found an interesting proof-of-concept video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxod4pIusro
Based on that video, it seems that android can only connect to an optical drive if you install a paid app. Even then, the youtuber only uses the CD-R to open .jpg files, .mp3 files, and .mp4 files (in other words, only file types that android can open natively) not redbook audio.

To answer your question directly, no, nothing quite like that already exists.

UPDATE!

I came across this weird device, and it reminded me of Ziggy's post from three months ago.
Image

Looks like an android 6.0 tablet with a DVD player (and presumably a CD player) built in. This wouldn't be terribly hard to mount in a car with a little ingenuity.

More info here:
https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Touchscreen- ... B077L4VBHK

Edit: I should probably mention that most "RCA" tablets have mediocre or poor build quality. I can't say for certain about this one, as I don't own it.

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:22 am
by Anapan
I only ever see RCA tablets as "can you fix this?" problems. The most annoying is when I have to rebuild the OS because it crashed during a Wifi on/of switch and can no longer connect to wifi because it cannot turn it's adapter on. You would think this is a simple OS upgrade fix, but it's never been fixed. After that the next most common problem is the plastic shell just dropping off and the screen cracking because there's no protection. JB Weld or Suguru?

Has anyone tried running a USB Optical (CD/DVD) drive through android? I have run discs through Linux MPlayer on the Pandora handheld with IMO perfect results.

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:49 am
by chuckster
Has anyone ever tried those Pyle/Rockport/Generic Chinese stereo amps? My Dad had a Rockport PA head and it seemed pretty good for the 2-3 years he had it. Just looking for plenty of power for cheap.

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:52 pm
by samsonlonghair
chuckster wrote:Has anyone ever tried those Pyle/Rockport/Generic Chinese stereo amps? My Dad had a Rockport PA head and it seemed pretty good for the 2-3 years he had it. Just looking for plenty of power for cheap.

I think CRTgamer had a lenghty write up of the Lepai / Lepy stereo amps. Let me see if I can dig it up...

Edit: I found it. All credit to CRTgamer for typing up another lengthy review.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42272&hilit=lepai&start=10

Re: Audiophile, Budgetphile, and Dontgiveaphile thread.

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:44 am
by fastbilly1
I run a Lepai in my Astro. It is great but needs a sub. There is a fair amount of discussion in this topic from a few years ago.