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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Fri May 11, 2012 6:20 pm

Wow washed out city. My 1993 s-enc super famicom the colours looked just as strong as the s-video, so did the brightness. I havn't regularily used s-video from a model 1 in ages but in my model 2 the s-video doesn't miss any background details.
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Ziggy587
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Fri May 11, 2012 6:37 pm

^ I'm confused what you mean. With your SFC using S-Video the colors look as strong as the S-Video pics I posted?

And yes, super washed out. But interestingly enough, look at some of the lighter colors. Like the light blue in "Super Mario World" on the title screen. You can hardly notice a difference between them.
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by elmagicochrisg Fri May 11, 2012 7:09 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:Look at just how much brighter it is than S-Video. Maybe that's why the colors as so washed out. And I don't think turning the brightness down on the TV would help (though I haven't tried). I'm thinking the resistors will help a great deal, maybe even make it perfect. But I'm too lazy to try right now. :lol:

It would be nice if you tried adjusting the TV / monitor settings before you add resistors, and see if things improve...

Come on dude, make it happen and report back... :mrgreen:

Also, thanks for the pics so far... ^^
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Ziggy587
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Fri May 11, 2012 7:42 pm

Maybe I'll check later tonight and post the results, but I doubt I'll be able to get the picture perfect by just adjust the TV settings. Even so, you shouldn't have to adjust the settings on the TV that much for something. Even if I could get the picture to be perfect by just adjusting the TV settings, I would still look to fix it internally anyway.
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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Fri May 11, 2012 10:30 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:^ I'm confused what you mean. With your SFC using S-Video the colors look as strong as the S-Video pics I posted?

And yes, super washed out. But interestingly enough, look at some of the lighter colors. Like the light blue in "Super Mario World" on the title screen. You can hardly notice a difference between them.


no no what I mean is the component video from my 1993 s-enc super famicom the colour and brightness is just as strong as the s-video from the same console. And that's with the encoder chip wired directly into my component crt with no parts in between. And of course it's harder to distinguish between the colours in your component video screenshot when the colours are washed out it will make it harder to see the difference.

God knows how many different models of the rohm encoders nintendo released because most of the chips only say "s-enc" on them. But I'm guessing that different rohm chips will give different results. Like I mentioned before my ultra early super famicom with the encoder labelled as "ba6592f" has an absolutely TERRIBLE component video picture. There's barely any colour and the brightness is too dark it looks like the old 6592 needs amps on the outputs. Yet my 1993 super famicom with the encoder labelled only as "s-enc" the component video has all the levels perfectly correct. I can set my tv back to normal levels and the component video from the 1993 super famicom looks perfect except for the blurryness which all the old ppu models seem to suffer from.
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Sat May 12, 2012 1:40 pm

OK, so I put a 75 Ohm resistor on each line. It might have corrected the brightness, but it's kinda hard to tell. It doesn't seem as bright compared to S-Video as it did before the resistors. As far as the colors go, they're still washed out. Next I will have to try the 1K resistors tied to ground, as others have suggested. Hopefully that'll help.

Drakon wrote:no no what I mean is the component video from my 1993 s-enc super famicom the colour and brightness is just as strong as the s-video from the same console. And that's with the encoder chip wired directly into my component crt with no parts in between.


Oh, OK. So, the original poster from the Sega-16 thread was also using the encoder marked "S-ENC" with no model number, and he said the picture was great (without any help). I guess that particular model can output a more useful (perfect?) component signal than the 6592 and the "S-ENC B" 6594.

edit: With the 75Ohm resistors still on, I put 1K Ohm resistors between the ground and line tabs on each RCA connector. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I figured the way you're suppose to do it is tie the resistor from the line to ground, as oppose to just putting it on the connector. Anyways, with the 1k resistors I put on, there was no difference in the picture. Like, no difference at all. So I decided to redo everything from scratch using 22 AWG wire (as oppose to the 30 AWG that I initially used) and no resistors. Same results. I'll have to try adding the 1k resistors again and see what happens, but I don't have any time left for this today. I don't think it's gonna make a difference though, I might have to start thinking of something else.

edit: Another thing I've noticed with this SNES (1993, S-ENC B) is that there's pretty much no difference between the composite and S-Video. Although it might be the cable I'm using. But I really couldn't tell any difference between the two.

@ Drakon - Your '93 SFC... can you notice a difference between composite and S-Video with it?
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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Sat May 12, 2012 8:45 pm

Of course I can notice a difference between composite and s-video I'm using a CRT with an awesome quality s-video picture. My old 1992 snes I could easily tell the difference between composite and s-video as well. Trust me no resistor magic will make any difference with my 6592 encoder system all the resistors in the world made zero difference but with my 93 s-enc sfc it was as "perfect" as to be expected. The component video from my 93 s-enc sfc is just as blurry as the rgb / s-video / everything from the system but it has the brightness and colour strength all correct.
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Ziggy587
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Sat May 12, 2012 9:24 pm

Huh, then I don't know what's going on with this particular SNES of mine. There's no discernible difference between composite and S-Video with it. And the CRT I'm testing on, I've compared composite to S-video with a lot of different consoles (multiple SNESes including minis, PS1, PS2, Xbox, Genesis). The only thing I can think of is the cable I'm currently using for it (it's a third party mulit-console composite/s-video AV cable) is possibly trash. I'll have to give it a try with another S-video cable, the one that I use on my LCD (with great success). Perhaps this particular SNES of mine is just really trashy all around for some reason, and that might be effecting the component signal as well. I'll have to try another S-Video cable, like I said, and if I get the same results I'll have to try the component mod in another SNES (I have 3 SNESes with the 6594 "S-ENC B" in them).

So just to recap:

Your '92 SNES w/ 6592 - component is complete trash
Your '93 SFC w/ S-ENC - component is "perfect"
My '93 SNES w/ S-ENC B 6594 - ???

I just wanna confirm... My component quality (from the pictures I posted) is better than what you got from your 6592 SNES, right?
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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Sat May 12, 2012 10:19 pm

It's probably the cable. Ironically what got me into modding in the first place was I ordered a snes s-video cable and it was somehow wired into the composite video pins. I plugged the cable into my non-modded av famicom which only did composite video and still got a picture on my tv. I checked the pins on the cable and it only had one out of the two s-video pins. I opened the cable and sure enough it was wired all wrong. In a fit of anger I busted open my authentic snes composite video cable, rewired it for s-video and after seeing the massive improvement of video quality I started console modding and havn't stopped since.

And yes the pictures you showed looked better than my 6592. The 6592 is like your endcoder but even more washed out and darker. I also mentioned before that the snes schematic I have which has the s-enc in the schematic shows the video signals all going through amps before making it to the multi av port. This schematic is SUPER early so it's probably designed around the 6592. I'm pretty sure the 6592 is only found in the first japanese sfc consoles like I posted earlier I have a revision 1 snes pcb with a 6594 encoder on it. I really wish I knew which encoder is in my 93 sfc but stupid nintendo liked to relabel their rohm chips.
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Ziggy587
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Sat May 12, 2012 10:49 pm

Yeah, I gave this cable a check with my multi meter and it appears to be wired correctly (though it's hard to tell because of the way the pins are). I know that S-Video works properly for the PS1/2 connector. I guess I'll have to crack it open and check, because I think something is definitely wrong.
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