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Zing
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Zing Wed May 09, 2012 1:23 pm

Drakon wrote:The snes jr is vertical bar free, and outputs a much sharper rgb image from the ppu chip.

I realize that you seem to understand a lot about SNES hardware, but this statement is incorrect, unless you mean when using some sort of RGB mod. I personally "unsealed" (technically not sealed, but it was brand new, unopened) a model 2 and the vertical line was actually more prominent than in my original SNES. This seems mainly due to the model 2 outputting a much brighter image for whatever reason (tested on several TVs using the same a/v cable and input).
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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Wed May 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Zing wrote:
Drakon wrote:The snes jr is vertical bar free, and outputs a much sharper rgb image from the ppu chip.

I realize that you seem to understand a lot about SNES hardware, but this statement is incorrect, unless you mean when using some sort of RGB mod. I personally "unsealed" (technically not sealed, but it was brand new, unopened) a model 2 and the vertical line was actually more prominent than in my original SNES. This seems mainly due to the model 2 outputting a much brighter image for whatever reason (tested on several TVs using the same a/v cable and input).


Well I've never seen the bar in mine I wonder if there's slightly different pcb revisions. I put my snes 2 through all sorts of testing and endless playing and still have yet to see the bar. Keep in mind though I never really tested mine with composite video. I first wired up s-video from the onboard s-rgb encoder, then later bypassed the encoder for a cxa2075 encoder circuit. Currently I can't get a bar from it no matter how hard I look. I don't remember seeing any bar when using the s-video from the s-rgb encoder in it. I have a spare un-modded snes 2 I'll take a look when I have the time.

I should also mention I have a model 1 snes sns-cpu-02 with the s-rgb encoder and the old 2 chip ppu system and I have never seen the bar in this system either. Unfortunately since this system has the old 2 ppu system the rgb from the ppus is just as blur-tastic as all the other systems until the onechip ppu was released.
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Hobie-wan
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Hobie-wan Wed May 09, 2012 3:27 pm

As a refresher regarding the bar in the middle of the screen, I got the bar on my plasma with composite using the lockless/unsocketed and Jr models, but not the older socketed SNES. No bars with s-video or RF on my plasma and no bar on the CRT I tested.

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Jamisonia
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Jamisonia Wed May 09, 2012 5:02 pm

The vertical line is a very tricky guy. It seems to only occur sometimes, even with the same SNES. Certain TV, game, and SNES combinations seems to treat it differently. I have tested power conditioning. I have used power conditioners to remove power noise, and it didn't change anything.
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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Wed May 09, 2012 10:11 pm

At first I found it hard to see if the bar was there or not but then I got a snes powerpak. The snes powerpak turns the bar from faint white into faint green so it becomes quite obvious when I'm using a console that has it. I usually just stick my powerpak into the system and load up mario world to look for the bar of doom.

In other bar of death related news one of my friends / clients wired up video to his snes 2 and forgot to wire ground and he said that made the bar appear and be super strong........yeah.....
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elmagicochrisg
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by elmagicochrisg Wed May 09, 2012 10:52 pm

What vertical bar are you guys talking about? Never noticed anything like that on my SFC, not even with the PowerPak. Can you show me a picture with this problem?...

EDIT Found one...

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That's just fucked up...
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Drakon
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Drakon Thu May 10, 2012 10:55 am

Yeah the bar looks like that with normal carts. With my powerpak it goes transparent green instead of transparent white. And certain snes revisions have it worse than others. On my old 1992 snes it was huge and highly annoying. Luckily I broke that system and used it for parts.
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Ziggy587
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Thu May 10, 2012 5:20 pm

So I was thinking, it's gonna be kinda hard to show every one results of the component quality. The only capture card I ever owned doesn't have drivers for Vista/7, so I haven't used it in a while. Even so, it doesn't have component input. I did manage to find a capture device that has component, and wasn't super expensive either.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815260039

It has audio, S-Video and component in and out. I guess you can output to a TV and play with no lag while you capture on the PC. Pretty neat, and not crazy expensive.

But I'm really not willing to spend $65 on something just to post results of the SNES component quality. Let alone something that has no reviews at all (it might be a total waste of money). Though it might be good to own (assuming it works), I don't really know when I'd ever use it again.

I doubt there's any capture devices out there that don't suck, can input component, and are cheaper in price then this. Am I wrong?

My only other option is, ::gulp:: pause for dramatic suspense, taking a picture of the TV screen. Would that be so bad? At least I have a decent DSLR camera these days.
Image
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elmagicochrisg
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by elmagicochrisg Thu May 10, 2012 5:55 pm

For those who want cheap female component parts...

Male RCA Component to 6-Female RCA RGB Y/Pr/Pb Cable Adapter
Image

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Ziggy587
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Re: So.... Some SNESes output YPbPr.....

by Ziggy587 Fri May 11, 2012 6:13 pm

OK, so my RCA panel mount jacks came in the mail today and I hooked up component in one of my Super Nintendos (with the S-ENC B).

I wired it straight from the encoder pins to the RCA jacks, no resistors or anything. The picture doesn't look bad, per se, but it definitely needs a little help. The first thing you can notice is that the picture is nice and bright, and all the lines are well defined. But after comparing it to S-Video, you can tell that the colors are a little washed or faded. That's the best why I can describe it with words, but a picture will tell more.

It looks identical (as far as I can tell) on my CRT and LCD, so I took pictures of my LCD screen since you can't really take pics of a CRT. The only thing I forgot, my TV can have different settings between inputs. The brightness was up a little higher on the S-Video input. But being that the component video looks brighter anyway, it didn't really matter. It didn't effect the way the colors compare. The last few pics were taken with some glare on the screen, but it doesn't really effect the comparison.

For each pair of pics, the first one is S-Video and the second one is component.

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Image
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This last one is interesting...
S-Video:
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Component:
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Remember, I said the brightness was a little higher on the S-Video input, but yet you can see background detail in the component shot that was otherwise black and not visible in the S-Video shot.

So like I said, overall the colors look a little faded and the picture is definitely brighter than anything else. But look at how white the whites are. And look at the detail of any text, it's so sharp. I think it looks good, but it obviously needs help. Next I will try adding resistors as others have suggested. But as far as I can tell, others have described a much worse picture before resistors that what I'm seeing.

@ Drakon: How did yours compare to mine? About the same, or worse? I'm wondering if the 6594 outputs a slightly different component signal than the 6592. 133Mhz said there was "very little color" and "almost monochrome." I would not describe my results like that. Perhaps the 6594 had some improvements, or it might be the difference between every ones TVs (though mine looks identical on my CRT and LCD).

133Mhz said putting a 75Ohm resistor in series on each line gave him a great picture, but putting a 1K to ground on each line made the picture perfect. His initial results with no resistors sounded worse than mine though, so maybe I'll try a 75Ohm resistor first.

edit: The pictures really aren't as good as the actual picture on my TV, of course. But after looking at the pics I just posted, it's easy to view differences when they're side by side then when I'm switching back and forth between inputs. I'm having a thought. Look at just how much brighter it is than S-Video. Maybe that's why the colors as so washed out. And I don't think turning the brightness down on the TV would help (though I haven't tried). I'm thinking the resistors will help a great deal, maybe even make it perfect. But I'm too lazy to try right now. :lol:

elmagicochrisg wrote:For those who want cheap female component parts...

Male RCA Component to 6-Female RCA RGB Y/Pr/Pb Cable Adapter


Speaking about that... Last time I ordered RCA panel mount jacks was from DigiKey. They're fine. But the blue and green ones on DigiKey are now non-stock, and they were out of one color, so I ended up ordering them from Mouser instead. The ones from Mouser are incredible compared to the ones from DigiKey. The only downside is that they require a slightly larger mounting space. But overall, they seem better built. They come with the ground tab, two nuts, and two non conductive washers that match the color of the jack. Also, the grounding tab is already bent.

A comparison picture:

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They were like 30 cents more each compared to the ones from DigiKey. Well worth the price, I think.
Last edited by Ziggy587 on Fri May 11, 2012 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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