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DinnerX
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by DinnerX Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:50 am

Ziggy587 wrote:
DinnerX wrote:I'd be concerned. Nintendo thought one motor would draw too many amps to be supplied by the console. Two would probably exceed the max amps the controller power supply can provide.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. But honestly, the controller might be able to power one perfectly fine. I think Nintendo usually airs on the side of caution. It will be easy enough to test though. Well, kinda a pain in the ass to test current since I'll have to splice the volt line. Luckily I have a couple spare 3rd party controllers I could use for this. Or maybe I'll get an extension cable to test current (maybe the 3rd party controllers will differ some how from the first party controllers).

Testing would tell you how many amps the controller was drawing, but that might not be the maximum amps the n64 can provide.

I just realised the n64 power brick says the max amps it can provide at 3.3 volts. If you look on the under side it says 3.3v 2.7a so looks like 2.7a is the highest it safely goes.

Ziggy587 wrote:Well it should be easy enough to probe the controller to get those readings. But I'm thinking, since it's a motor, it probably has a decent range that it will operate in. Like, if it's under powered, it will run but just not as fast. If it's slightly over powered, it will run faster. I mean, I assume this is how the rumble is controlled anyway (when it rumbles soft or hard) but it probably has a slightly larger range than it normally operates in.

I don't do a whole lot with motors, but I think this is right. I bet the systems vary the rumble speed buy pulsing electricity though. It's easier to control.

Ziggy587 wrote:
DinnerX wrote:EDIT:I opened up my tremor pak plus and the switch to go from rumble to memory card looks like it switches several wires so you probably can't have the two paks fully connected at the same time.


Ah, that might get annoying then. How many lines do you think it switches?

Three lines I think.
CRTGAMER wrote:The cutoff switch would also be useful in case the motor stays on, this sometimes happens on certain games.

This is so annoying when it happens.
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Ziggy587
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by Ziggy587 Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:08 am

I've never had it get stuck on before... what games are prone to doing that?
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by CRTGAMER Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:30 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:I've never had it get stuck on before... what games are prone to doing that?

Seems random, I recently played Banjo Kazooie and the motor kept running after getting killed. I had to unplug the vibration pack and plug it back in to shut the motor off. A kill switch would take care of a "stuck" internal motor.
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by alienjesus Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:42 pm

I know you've talked about this a bit, but I'm still not sure how you'll work the memory pack issue. Both the games I have that use a memory pack (turok rage wars and snowboard kids) will recognise whatever's plugged in as a memory pack, including the transfer pack and rumble pack. If the controller thinks there's always a rumble pack plugged in it might not recognise the memory pack either way. Maybe you could have some sort of switch to temporarily turn the rumble pack off whilst you insert the memory or transfer packs? It would sort out the issue for endless rumble people are mentioning too.
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DinnerX
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by DinnerX Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:48 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:I've never had it get stuck on before... what games are prone to doing that?

I know I've had it happen multiple times with f-zero x. Diddy kong racing has done it a few times.

If you've never had a problem, then maybe there's something funny about CRTGAMER's and my controllers or rumble paks. I've got 4 of each so I should try switching things around and see what happens.
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by Ziggy587 Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:02 pm

alienjesus wrote:I know you've talked about this a bit, but I'm still not sure how you'll work the memory pack issue. Both the games I have that use a memory pack (turok rage wars and snowboard kids) will recognise whatever's plugged in as a memory pack, including the transfer pack and rumble pack. If the controller thinks there's always a rumble pack plugged in it might not recognise the memory pack either way. Maybe you could have some sort of switch to temporarily turn the rumble pack off whilst you insert the memory or transfer packs? It would sort out the issue for endless rumble people are mentioning too.



Well I was talking about a particular third party rumble pak I have that has it's own memory card slot. This one...

http://www.amazon.com/TremorPak-Plus/dp ... 917&sr=8-3

It has a slider switch that will chose either the rumble or memory card function. I would have to implement this into my controller if I ever hope to also use a memory card with it as well.

DinnerX wrote:I know I've had it happen multiple times with f-zero x. Diddy kong racing has done it a few times.

If you've never had a problem, then maybe there's something funny about CRTGAMER's and my controllers or rumble paks. I've got 4 of each so I should try switching things around and see what happens.


I've never had it happen, but now that I think about it, I haven't played a great deal of games with the rumble pak. I never played Star Fox without the rumble pak, and I've never had it happen in that game. I've only played Diddy Kong Racing and GoldenEye and handful of times with the rumble pak, I've mostly played it without. Though I have the rumble pak version of Mario 64, and I've completed that game with the rumble pak, never had it get stuck.
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by Ziggy587 Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:46 pm

DinnerX wrote:I just realised the n64 power brick says the max amps it can provide at 3.3 volts. If you look on the under side it says 3.3v 2.7a so looks like 2.7a is the highest it safely goes.


Oddly enough, I noticed that for the first time yesterday. I did a little Google and it looks like most AA batteries put out 2.4 amps, and Energizers might put out up to 2.7 amps. So that being the case, it looks good!

That being said, an official Nintendo rumble pak takes two AAA batteries, so 3 volts. The power going to the controller is 3.3v. I know we said the motor probably has a decent range, but I think it might be smart to bring it down to 3v or maybe even a tad under. The motor probably doesn't have to run as fast if the weight is right by your hand. I think when the rumble pak is waaaay out there in the socket, it has to spin faster for that rumble to translated to your hands. I think if the weight is right under your hand, it wont have to spin as fast for you to feel it the same way. But this is just all speculation.
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by Niode Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:27 pm

Regarding the battery issue, should you go down that route, I'd put them in the d-pad prong but cut part of the underside prong, that way you can unscrew that prong and just have access to the battery to change. Kinda like on RC cars.
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by CRTGAMER Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Niode wrote:Regarding the battery issue, should you go down that route, I'd put them in the d-pad prong but cut part of the underside prong, that way you can unscrew that prong and just have access to the battery to change. Kinda like on RC cars.
That is a great idea! A one or two screw access, looks like AAAs would just fit, one screw post might have to be removed. Before the Mod, maybe first test a battery free rumble pack vs a battery Rumble Pack. See if the vibration is adequate for the battery free version?
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Re: Idea: N64 controller with BUILT IN rumble pak

by Ziggy587 Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:32 pm

Niode wrote:Regarding the battery issue, should you go down that route, I'd put them in the d-pad prong but cut part of the underside prong, that way you can unscrew that prong and just have access to the battery to change. Kinda like on RC cars.


I've thought about doing something like that, but after I thought about it a little more, I wouldn't even bother. Good brand name batteries seem to last a long time in my first party Rumble Pak. It's not like I'd be having to change them constantly. Pretty sure the batteries in my Rumble Pak now are over a year old, possibly a few years, and they're still working. If I had to open the entire controller up even once a year, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

CRTGAMER wrote: looks like AAAs would just fit, one screw post might have to be removed.


If I have to end up using batteries, I think I'll be able to fit them in the D-pad prong without having to excise the screw post. If I were to use a battery holder, then yeah, I think I would have to remove the screw post. But I don't have to use a battery holder, I could just connect them together however and stuff them in there.

CRTGAMER wrote:Before the Mod, maybe first test a battery free rumble pack vs a battery Rumble Pack. See if the vibration is adequate for the battery free version?


Yeah, I'll probably play around with a couple different rumble paks to see what's what with them. Not that I know when I'm gonna find the time to do all this. :lol:
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