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dsheinem
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by dsheinem Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:16 am

jp1 wrote:
I believe that we should all treat each other with respect though and so I support the moderation of comments when it starts to become rude or unnecessary.

I'm not sure exactly how to phrase all of that to make a suggestion for amending the rules
but just imagine it is all folded up nicely in a short eloquent sentence.


That's the trick, though. What's "unnecessary"? Is saying something is 10% overpriced unnecessary? 20%? Is it "rude" to suggest that someone's prices are out of line or only to call them names when doing it?

We need that eloquent sentence so people understand something about the boundaries of comments and we can moderate appropriately. If you are merely wanting to make constructive criticisms of someone's thread, wouldn't that best be done via PM?
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by noiseredux Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:19 am

I think saying "woah! That's way overpriced!" should be kept to PM's. But I think saying "hey, are you trying to pass off a burnt torrent as something official???" is perfectly fine within the thread. What I'm getting at is I believe sellers should come forth with full disclosure. None of this "PM me for price" or "PM me for pics" shit. If you have a price in mind, tell ALL OF US. If you have pics, SHOW ALL OF US. If you know it's a burnt disc, PUT THAT IN THE DESCRIPTION. For me, it's this bullshit that needs the community watching out for each other.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by jp1 Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:35 am

dsheinem wrote:
jp1 wrote:
I believe that we should all treat each other with respect though and so I support the moderation of comments when it starts to become rude or unnecessary.

I'm not sure exactly how to phrase all of that to make a suggestion for amending the rules
but just imagine it is all folded up nicely in a short eloquent sentence.


That's the trick, though. What's "unnecessary"? Is saying something is 10% overpriced unnecessary? 20%? Is it "rude" to suggest that someone's prices are out of line or only to call them names when doing it?

We need that eloquent sentence so people understand something about the boundaries of comments and we can moderate appropriately. If you are merely wanting to make constructive criticisms of someone's thread, wouldn't that best be done via PM?


I think it is good for it to be available to everyone so that people can make an informed decision no matter if it is about questionable items or questionable prices. I would like to prevent John Doe from popping in and saying "oh I need a whatchamacallit for my collection, Look! there is one for $100" and then later finding out that it is available on ebay, amazon, and ten other places for $50. That could leave a bad taste in his mouth about Racketboy. Sure, it is his responsibility to know that but I feel like it is a good thing as a community to make sure that someone doesn't get ripped off just because they might be naive. Of course as noise pointed out it is especially important to have things such as burnt discs and possible fake items out in the open for everyone to know. And if someone doesn't want to talk about price publicly we should be asking "Why not?".

I don't know what the magic number is...maybe we could have a poll to see what the community finds is acceptable to be overcharged. Then if the item is past that threshold it would be acceptable to say something. I don't say anything unless it is a substantial amount like 30-40% on big ticket items or 50% or more on small ticket items. Sometimes I only comment because someone is asking why nobody wants it...that is to try and be helpful to them, not threadcrap.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I don't consider it rude to question someone's prices at all. I don't feel as though I can't do that at a flea market or garage sale either. I especially don't consider it rude if the prices seem uncommonly high. I do consider it rude to try and rip people off though and try to charge double what something is easily available for elsewhere. If people aren't trying to scam on someone and just hope it works out I honestly don't see why they would mind. I would rather be set straight about a high price on something of mine before someone buys than end up with someone feeling entirely taken advantage of. I just don't see the problem with polite discourse about the value of an item...it isn't as if you are questioning their lifestyle choices or something, it is just business.

On the other hand if someone is here being intentionally deceitful and rude I don't feel like they deserve our respect at all. I suppose we could just report it and be done with it but sometimes us users get pissed just like you guys do and we feel the need to say something. It's not like we would be scaring off a valuable member or anything. Who wants some scummy POS here anyway?
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by mjmjr25 Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:04 pm

Whether you want to post prices or not is a members personal decision. Some people like to do trade only and don't want to price. I'll give you game x for game y - hows that sound? That's their perrogative. Some people for logical reasons, say yes, i'd rather have your game y, but just so you know, your game y is worth $20 and my x is worth $30, you'll have to send $10 also. Again, pricing shouldn't be commented on (in my opinion) at all. If it's high - move along.

Pics take a ton of time - if you are a serious serious collector and the verbal description is inadequate, it's perfectly reasonable to pm a request for pics, again, in my opinion.

With all of that said - i'm still fairly new here and don't like calling people out. So I will just say "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."

When I posted my first thread in the b/s/t forum, I made a mistake and a very active member called me out, only 1 thread per forum topic. To save bandwidth and to save clutter and to allow for all members threads to be seen - this makes a TON of sense. This member who called me out 5 months ago, as of yesterday, they had 7 threads on page 1 of the b/s/t. Not tryin' to peck a fight - just sayin', lots of windows in that house bro.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by jp1 Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:42 pm

Seems like a moot point to discuss these rules honestly. I am free to walk in to any thrift store, flee market, garage sale, or other outlet that sells used items and talk openly about if I am dissatisfied with price or service but here the seller should have some special rights to silence everyone about it? Sure, it is your right to price things however you like and it is my right to just "move on" but I should also be allowed to freely express my opinions as long as it isn't done in a malicious fashion.

The funny thing about these rules is that business around here really slowed down with the creation of them but they are still considered good for the community. Other factors may be involved as well but I think it is worth a second look when both occurred around the same time.

I'm still waiting to here why an honest seller would care if someone pointed out that their item was grossly overpriced and widely available for less. The only possible reason to care about that is if you hope to take advantage of someone who hasn't bothered to look. If my price was too high on something and someone pointed out that it could be purchased for much less from ebay or amazon I would simply thank them for pointing out my oversight and adjust the price accordingly or keep the item if it isn't quite the draw I thought it was. So, I couldn't get $25 for Madden 2005. I'm not going to get all bitchy about it and tell people to keep their mouth shut. Of course I generally try to check the values of my items and sell them at a fair price to begin with instead of arbitrarily assigning a value and hoping some sucker will bite.

The rules should be amended to state that if you want to treat the members of this particular online community like garbage and come here with a bad attitude and a poor demeanor that you have no business selling your stuff here to begin with. Some people come here and act so entitled because they waited the 14 days to sell crap. You aren't paying ANY FEES to sell on this site because it is a part of the online community that you don't even care to be a productive part of. Sorry, I don't see the value in these assholes and I will never respect them.

Let me point out mjmjr25 that although this is a response to your post I am not pointing any fingers at you. I am just making generalizations about some of the "quality" members we have been accumulating in the B/S/T section as of late. So please don't take offense or feel as though I am attacking you personally.

This used to be a really fun place to do business and while I still appreciate the opportunities that it affords us as members of this community without asking anything in return I rarely have any fun in this section any more. It is far more stressful and annoying than it ever was back in the "thread crapping" days.

I'm sure that it wasn't me you were referring to because I certainly never had 7 threads on the front page but I will from time to time make an extra thread if I want a specific item because it will get a lot more exposure that way. I don't think people really dig around everyone's thread looking for the 1 off item they might want.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by Flake Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:54 pm

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who is dragging this place down.

But seriously, is there an consideration for a review period on the rules of B/S/T? I've been doing a lot of brisk and satisfying business the last few weeks - the only issues I've had have been a few unscrupulous people hocking some very suspicious wares. It sounds like other people have had other issues, though.

Is there any plan to collect testimony or complaints from various members in some kind of actionable fashion?
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by noiseredux Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:55 pm

jp1 wrote:I'm sure that it wasn't me you were referring to because I certainly never had 7 threads on the front page but I will from time to time make an extra thread if I want a specific item because it will get a lot more exposure that way. I don't think people really dig around everyone's thread looking for the 1 off item they might want.


I think he was talking about me. I only have 1 B/S/T thread, but I will sometimes put up separate threads to gauge interest check in a rare item before adding it to my list, or will set up a separate thread if I'm seeking out a specific rare item. Not sure if I had seven at once that got bumped to page 1, but if it is me that you're talking about then hey -- sorry, it wasn't intentional. :|
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by mjmjr25 Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:34 pm

Flake wrote:I'm pretty sure I'm the one who is dragging this place down.

But seriously, is there an consideration for a review period on the rules of B/S/T? I've been doing a lot of brisk and satisfying business the last few weeks - the only issues I've had have been a few unscrupulous people hocking some very suspicious wares. It sounds like other people have had other issues, though.

Is there any plan to collect testimony or complaints from various members in some kind of actionable fashion?


I don't think anyone or anyone person for that matter is dragging anything down. I think some people will find a reason to complain about anything. Put prices, there too high. Don't put prices, "hey, where's the prices?"

I've read people complaining about people not "finishing" deals and the like, and literally that very person did that to me. I held 4 games back at their request, then did the wait....wait...pm them...nothing (but they were still active on other threads - so they didn't die or anything). But, I mean, what do you do, it's online forum - i've figured out pretty quickly who is legit and who isn't. I'm not gonna waste time outing them or jumping on there thread - it's like I tell my kids, "worry about yourself", none of us practice perfect etiquitte all the time...and if we did, perfect to one is not perfect to another.

As for pricing, not to harp too long, but we don't know everything about an item. I can point to an ebay or amazon sale and say, "hey, that stock photo of burning rangers just sold for $48 on ebay...heres a link to the completed sale, so yours at $75 is too high". Well, that stock photo arrived in my mail box today...umm, yeah, scratched to hell, case hinges busted and instructions reek of cigs. So, I guess that one was worth $48, but umm, unless you have $75 in trade or $68 in cash, i'll be keeping mine - make sense? (burning rangers is an example...I still need a copy :D )

No noise, I wasn't talking about you...I think you only had 5 on page 1 yesterday :) I was referencing a person who felt the need to jump on me on a thread, rather than politely pm me about a rule I had simply missed.

I understand the importance of rules, and for the most part, they are helpful. My personal thoughts are like I said, in many respects, just mind your own business - with that said, if someone is a known scammer, by all means out them. If someone screwed you over, by all means leave negative feedback to let us know. But i've seen guys attacked on their threads for: High prices, no pictures, using ALL CAPS, spelling errors, and on and on. If a guy scams you, out him. If a guy's prices are high, move on or barter down. If a guy spells nentindo wrong...so what.

Alright, my rant is over, thanks for reading!
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by jp1 Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:39 pm

Flake wrote:I'm pretty sure I'm the one who is dragging this place down.

But seriously, is there an consideration for a review period on the rules of B/S/T? I've been doing a lot of brisk and satisfying business the last few weeks - the only issues I've had have been a few unscrupulous people hocking some very suspicious wares. It sounds like other people have had other issues, though.

Is there any plan to collect testimony or complaints from various members in some kind of actionable fashion?



Hmm, well congratulations on the good business. I suppose it was a bit presumptious of me to assume business has been slow for everyone. Maybe people just don't like me and my big complaining mouth any longer. I suspect the rules haven't been reconsidered because I am the lone wolf in disagreement of them. :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by Flake Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:43 pm

jp1 wrote:I suspect the rules haven't been reconsidered because I am the lone wolf in disagreement of them. :lol:


I don't think you're the lone wolf, but I also don't think we've yet gathered enough information about what needs / should be done.
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