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noiseredux
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by noiseredux Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:46 am

gtmtnbiker wrote:
noiseredux wrote:I know communication is mentioned in the B/S/T rules, but I wanted to sort of elaborate on that. A personal pet peeve of mine is when somebody "leaves you hanging." An example: I send a PM to somebody and say "hey I want such-and-such" and they say, "okay what NES games do you have to trade?" and then I send them a list and... nothing. No response. I hate that. I think it's a lot more considerate to just PM back and say "sorry, nothing of interest on your list. Thanks anyway." than to just leave a possible trade hanging like that. I might think you're still considering, which means if somebody else asks about those same NES games I'll have to say "well, they're part of another possible trade right now, so I'll have to get back to you." Okay. Sorry to rant. It's just something that bugs me.


I totally agree. It's completely rude. This happens to me on Craigslist as well. I think one way to curb that would be to say first-come, first-serve. Be up front that the first person who delivers the cash or says this is the deal will get it. No holding for anyone.


yeah. It also bugs me because say that game I originally was inquiring about... well now I'm NOT going to be looking for it elsewhere cuz in the back of my mind I'm thinking "oh well that guy is gonna pick out some NES games and trade it to me." Anyway, bottom-line is it's just rude like you said. Good B/S/T practice is to keep full communication from beginning to END of a trade. :roll:
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by kenji hatboy Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:50 pm

dsheinem wrote:The previous B/S/T rules thread (viewtopic.php?f=22&t=15763) was, to quote Ack, "a few basic guidelines to consider while something better is slapped together for you." Here's the new and improved official rules:

RULES (breaking these will result in warnings/other penalties):

1. Only members who have been registered for more than 14 days can post in B/S/T. If you do not fit this basic criteria, your post will be deleted. However, if you think you have something especially interesting to offer the community, pm a moderator and an exception can be made.

2. Create ONE primary thread and update it regularly. You can change the thread title to reflect changes to content. Occasional one-off threads for a particular item are fine, but these should be kept to a bare minimum.

3. Bump threads no more than one time a day, regardless of any changes in content. It's fine to reply to general questions/comments in your own thread, but there's no need to keep bumping others down.

4. All transaction-related communication between buyer and seller or traders should take place via PM.

5. Do not create a thread whose sole purpose is to advertise an eBay link unless you will be offering some kind of discount to forum members.

6. Do not post the following in someone else's thread:
A) your own items for sale
B) your negative opinion of the seller, their products, or their prices
C) tangential discussion
D) links to A, B, or C

GUIDELINES (good etiquette and general suggestions - no penalty for violation)

1. Leave feedback in this thread after transactions are done: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10752. Use a +1 for a positive transaction (regardless of the number of items involved) and a -1 for a negative transaction. Use this thread as a guide for deciding who you feel safe doing business with.

2. Stating these things up front will generally increase the likelihood of a sale and general buyer/seller/trader satisfaction: prices, pictures, description, condition, shipping location and charges, tracking services offered, and accepted payment methods.

3. Stay in frequent communication with one another. While replies within a day or two are standard, sometimes you may have to wait a week or more to hear back from a member. If you are concerned about an item or payment that has not arrived, you should probably give the person two-three weeks after shipping date (or communication stoppage) before filing any kind of claim.

4. When in doubt about whether something is acceptable, whether you have been ripped off, whether you are in violation of a rule, or any other matter related to the B/S/T forum, you should contact a moderator or admin for help.

5. It's not a bad idea to read this extremely informative post on trading online: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/faq ... ding_guide

FINALLY:

It should be noted that anybody buying, selling, or trading, is doing so at their own risk. As Racketboy.com administrators and moderators do not have access to financial information and do not have the power to force people to send items or money, we can not help you. That is what things like Paypal disputes are for.

Individuals found in violation of these rules may find themselves subject to warnings, a revocation of the right to post in the B/S/T forum, or even potential banning. Mods reserve the right to remove any auction deemed to be in violation of the B/S/T rules or the general forum rules (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19455).


oke i agree, sorry i don't have read all of the rule, thank you, moderator
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by raretrospective Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:27 pm

Got it :)
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by jp1 Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:34 pm

dsheinem wrote:While I do appreciate users looking out for one another, the only approved way to do this is to PM the seller and/or the mods. Sometimes what one person thinks is illegitimate or a rip off is a perfectly fair price to someone else, but the seller shouldn't have to be put in the position of defending their prices against any and all challenges.

That said, I'm perturbed to see that there's already another round of threadcrapping above my post here. This once, I am inclined to leave those comments as an example of what not to do.

As was noted, I already deleted several posts this morning because of this problem. I did contact those whose posts were deleted. Depending on what they were doing, some got warnings. Some of you (including some regulars) are right on the warning fence. Again, I appreciate what you are trying to do but when you violate the rules, we have to apply the penalty equitably across all members.

So, once again, I am going to lock a thread. If you are interested in the seller's product, please contact him via PM. If you want to talk about threadcrapping further, the rules, or other BST issues PLEASE DO, in the rules thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19928


So tired of banging my head against the wall. I don't think I deserve special treatment because I am a regular but I would think that my track record would indicate that I'm not here to hurt people. I feel less welcome here each day. I'm not perfect and I make mistakes like anyone else...I think more people here could benefit from a little introspective thought by the way, but I always apologize directly and in public to those that I feel I have wronged. It seems without fail that I always end up on the opposite side of the fence from the mods/rules when we want the same things. I will never understand that.

If someone comes along and doesn't have the information that I could have easily posted and ends up getting a shitty deal then I feel responsible. I have always welcomed constructive comments in my threads and in fact I miss them. If I can't figure out why my sales/trades are slowing down and I have to play the guessing game it is because people don't feel free to just say "Hey your price is a little high" or "That's on ebay right now for $xx" and that is just ridiculous. The only people that care about that are the one's hoping that some poor shmuck won't take the time to check.

Honestly, I really respect the mod team here and their contributions and I like each and every one of you guy's but I don't feel that those feelings are mutual. There seems to be a lot of blanket authority going on with little feedback from the user base about what they would like. I see several other regulars running up against the rules as well and maybe that is because they aren't very fitting for us as a community.

I realize that I'm probably a pain in the ass to you guy's because I won't jump in line to be silenced about how I feel but that is just me. If that isn't a good fit for the forums then maybe it is best you do ask me to leave. I don't want to because I really like it here and I think for the most part that it is a great community but I'm not just going to be someone else to fit in.

Sometimes I think it would be worthwhile to take into account the people you are dealing with and their motives and track record instead of just treating the guy who came here two weeks ago and hasn't done anything but try to rip people off and be rude to anyone who even questions them a little and the guy who has made this place a home and always tried to treat the people here fairly like they are the same.

I guess it is just me but I don't treat the scumbag at the flea market trying to sell me $20 compilations that he burnt in his attic the same as my local shopkeep who I have an established relationship with and has always been good to me.

I could rant on but I'm sure it is already getting cyclical. I'm sorry if it sounds a bit rude because it isn't intended that way but I am always(usually) behind gritted teeth about this stuff lately.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by dsheinem Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:50 pm

jp1 wrote:
dsheinem wrote:While I do appreciate users looking out for one another, the only approved way to do this is to PM the seller and/or the mods. Sometimes what one person thinks is illegitimate or a rip off is a perfectly fair price to someone else, but the seller shouldn't have to be put in the position of defending their prices against any and all challenges.

That said, I'm perturbed to see that there's already another round of threadcrapping above my post here. This once, I am inclined to leave those comments as an example of what not to do.

As was noted, I already deleted several posts this morning because of this problem. I did contact those whose posts were deleted. Depending on what they were doing, some got warnings. Some of you (including some regulars) are right on the warning fence. Again, I appreciate what you are trying to do but when you violate the rules, we have to apply the penalty equitably across all members.

So, once again, I am going to lock a thread. If you are interested in the seller's product, please contact him via PM. If you want to talk about threadcrapping further, the rules, or other BST issues PLEASE DO, in the rules thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19928


So tired of banging my head against the wall. I don't think I deserve special treatment because I am a regular but I would think that my track record would indicate that I'm not here to hurt people. I feel less welcome here each day. I'm not perfect and I make mistakes like anyone else...I think more people here could benefit from a little introspective thought by the way, but I always apologize directly and in public to those that I feel I have wronged. It seems without fail that I always end up on the opposite side of the fence from the mods/rules when we want the same things. I will never understand that.

If someone comes along and doesn't have the information that I could have easily posted and ends up getting a shitty deal then I feel responsible. I have always welcomed constructive comments in my threads and in fact I miss them. If I can't figure out why my sales/trades are slowing down and I have to play the guessing game it is because people don't feel free to just say "Hey your price is a little high" or "That's on ebay right now for $xx" and that is just ridiculous. The only people that care about that are the one's hoping that some poor shmuck won't take the time to check.

Honestly, I really respect the mod team here and their contributions and I like each and every one of you guy's but I don't feel that those feelings are mutual. There seems to be a lot of blanket authority going on with little feedback from the user base about what they would like. I see several other regulars running up against the rules as well and maybe that is because they aren't very fitting for us as a community.

I realize that I'm probably a pain in the ass to you guy's because I won't jump in line to be silenced about how I feel but that is just me. If that isn't a good fit for the forums then maybe it is best you do ask me to leave. I don't want to because I really like it here and I think for the most part that it is a great community but I'm not just going to be someone else to fit in.

Sometimes I think it would be worthwhile to take into account the people you are dealing with and their motives and track record instead of just treating the guy who came here two weeks ago and hasn't done anything but try to rip people off and be rude to anyone who even questions them a little and the guy who has made this place a home and always tried to treat the people here fairly like they are the same.

I guess it is just me but I don't treat the scumbag at the flea market trying to sell me $20 compilations that he burnt in his attic the same as my local shopkeep who I have an established relationship with and has always been good to me.

I could rant on but I'm sure it is already getting cyclical. I'm sorry if it sounds a bit rude because it isn't intended that way but I am always(usually) behind gritted teeth about this stuff lately.


For the record, I wasn't singling you out in this comment, though I was afraid you'd take it this way. I do appreciate and respect your record here and feel like you are a vital part to the community and the BST forums in particular so if I've done anything that makes you feel unwelcome I apologize sincerely. The last thing I'd want to see is you go away, and the rules were pu tinto place precisely because he had started to lose some regular members who were getting their threads hijacked for ridiculous things.

The rules as they exist aren't set in stone, and if someone proposes a better alternative to some of the wording and people seem to think it is a good idea, I'd be happy to make changes. And even though I help enforce them, they aren't my rules or the mods' rules, they are rules that were arrived at through discussion both in public threads in B/S/T as well as some discussion amongst the mods and admin.

I suspect the problem is in the wording of the rule itself. If we can come up with something that will penalize people for arguing in a seller's thread that $30 is too high for something that should cost $20, but still allow people to flag things that are exorbitantly overpriced or potentially shady, I'd like to see it.

I do feel like business has been slower here of late, and if the rules are contributing to that then I agree that they need to change. I have my own opinions of course about what the rules should be, but I will happily enforce any new rules of revisions that the community can seemingly agree upon.

For what it's worth, most of my bitching about threadcrapping and other things came before I had any moderator status, and the existing mods here made it a point to consider those concerns when drafting rules. I certainly think that current group of mods will surely do the same and make those changes that the community would like to see.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by CRTGAMER Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:29 pm

I wrote this direct PM to dsheinem earlier.
CRTGAMER wrote:I didn't realize how tight the rules are on the Buy Sell Thread. Understand the whys due to possible undermining of a service or sale. I think the earlier sale post concerning those Dreamcast Repros should have been more clarified by clearly stating in the OP that CDRs were being offered. The Repro label on burned discs seem to ring as a rare factory beta being offered.

I think both posts got a lot of flak from racketeers because of an individual profiting from pirating.

My deletion was because I offered to the OP an alternate cheaper method of setting up a Gamecube Soft Mod. But in posting right on the same thread it undermined the sell-service. Didn't get any deletion on the other post but I hinted right away that the PSX and Dreamcast Repos had a suspicion of being CDRs. Both the posts end up getting locked because of all the fires going with discussions undermining the sale.

But how get the word out if a sale looks dishonest? If it seems out of line, don't bust up that sale thread with remarks.
Report the questionable thread immediately to a mod with the Report Post "!" icon.
On the Mod's end, a timely response with a lock and even a deletion to prevent a potential dishonest or illegal sale.

Maybe leave discussion out of Buy Sale Thread other then transactions and questions related to the product?
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noiseredux
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by noiseredux Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:36 pm

I know I'm somewhat guilty of getting involved in certain recent threads and maybe adding fuel to the fire. I guess I can see the point of avoiding so called "thread crapping" and at the same time, I fully feel the weight of my top priority being protecting this community that has taken me in over the past couple years and made me feel very welcome and at home. I guess I can also see (because of that) why jp1 would feel slightly hurt seeing as how his intentions are good for the better of the community. Like any eco-system, there's a delicate balance here. Sometimes that balance is difficult to find, and we're all (old users, new users, mods, all) going to take some wrong steps (even or ESPECIALLY when our intentions are good) while attempting to find that balance. I think the important thing is that we all try to keep an open dialogue and level-head to avoid anyone cool leaving.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by Flake Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:54 pm

I've spoken up in threads. Not sure if what I've done constitutes as threadcrapping.

Here's the rub for me: I've noticed a CONSTANT influx of people coming to this site and heading straight for the B/S/T with no regard for the site itself or the community. Everyone that has been complained about for poor trader etiquette or selling shady merchandise has the same story in their profile: Every single one of their posts is in B/S/T.

There are people who come to this site to contribute. And then there are people who come to this site to make a quick and easy buck. They have no attachment to the community or to any of the members. And the rules as they are protect these people and disparage other forum members from looking out for one another.

I'll follow the rules to the letter but isn't it better to have the entire community of hundreds of active members looking out for one another than depending on the one or two mods that may or may not be paying attention at any given time?
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by gtmtnbiker Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:11 pm

Flake wrote:I'll follow the rules to the letter but isn't it better to have the entire community of hundreds of active members looking out for one another than depending on the one or two mods that may or may not be paying attention at any given time?


The community can still look out for folks but the key is to use the ! (report post) button. This brings the post up to the mods' attention because as you pointed out, mods cannot read/police every thread.
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Re: OFFICIAL RULES FOR B/S/T FORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING HERE

by jp1 Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:45 am

dsheinem wrote:For the record, I wasn't singling you out in this comment, though I was afraid you'd take it this way. I do appreciate and respect your record here and feel like you are a vital part to the community and the BST forums in particular so if I've done anything that makes you feel unwelcome I apologize sincerely. The last thing I'd want to see is you go away, and the rules were pu tinto place precisely because he had started to lose some regular members who were getting their threads hijacked for ridiculous things.

The rules as they exist aren't set in stone, and if someone proposes a better alternative to some of the wording and people seem to think it is a good idea, I'd be happy to make changes. And even though I help enforce them, they aren't my rules or the mods' rules, they are rules that were arrived at through discussion both in public threads in B/S/T as well as some discussion amongst the mods and admin.

I suspect the problem is in the wording of the rule itself. If we can come up with something that will penalize people for arguing in a seller's thread that $30 is too high for something that should cost $20, but still allow people to flag things that are exorbitantly overpriced or potentially shady, I'd like to see it.

I do feel like business has been slower here of late, and if the rules are contributing to that then I agree that they need to change. I have my own opinions of course about what the rules should be, but I will happily enforce any new rules of revisions that the community can seemingly agree upon.

For what it's worth, most of my bitching about threadcrapping and other things came before I had any moderator status, and the existing mods here made it a point to consider those concerns when drafting rules. I certainly think that current group of mods will surely do the same and make those changes that the community would like to see.


Thank you, and I do see where you are coming from.

I would like to suggest that open communication be allowed in the B/S/T forums when concerning quality of items or services and prices. I think it should be moderated based on individuals behavior instead. If you can suggest politely that something might be out of line and if everyone could learn to accept a little constructive criticism it should provide a better environment for everyone in my opinion.

I don't personally like the attitude that if you open a B/S/T thread you are suddenly a moderator of your own personal section of the forum. Things like "Don't post any of the following in my thread!" As if you have control over what people can and cannot say. Everyone should have the right to discuss what is available. This isn't ebay or amazon and nobody is paying any fee to participate. It is a community and if you aren't willing to be a part of it and show some reciprocation with the members than you probably shouldn't be doing business here.

I believe that we should all treat each other with respect though and so I support the moderation of comments when it starts to become rude or unnecessary.

I'm not sure exactly how to phrase all of that to make a suggestion for amending the rules
but just imagine it is all folded up nicely in a short eloquent sentence.

I remember before these rules where set that we had much the same problems we have now only we also had some benefits such as an open dialogue to gauge our own pricing and performance on. I just wish it wasn't necessary to feel as though we can't have a line of communication as long as we are showing an adequate amount of mutual respect and consideration.

I do appreciate the fact that I am able to openly express my dissatisfaction without anyone being rude or getting offended. That is one of the things that I find great about this place. I will be sure to bring it to this thread for discussion in the future rather than starting it up inside someone's sale thread, sorry about that.
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