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Sarge
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by Sarge Mon May 15, 2017 3:43 pm

Is there any good place to get decent data on how well games sold from this era? Seems like that, along with critical acclaim, would be the best measurement of what is "defining" or not.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by Ack Mon May 15, 2017 3:53 pm

Sarge wrote:Is there any good place to get decent data on how well games sold from this era? Seems like that, along with critical acclaim, would be the best measurement of what is "defining" or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_video_games

I realize Wikipedia is not generally to be considered the end-all be-all resource, but it does contain at least a reference for each number given that can be followed up on.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by Omerta Mon May 15, 2017 8:34 pm

Things like Street Fighter II, Sunset Riders, Zombies Ate My Neighbors, and Mortal Kombat were all pretty iconic in those days. Being multiplats, they probably help define the generation more than just the SNES so it could be argued that they don't belong in that specific article.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by strangenova Mon May 15, 2017 8:36 pm

Omerta wrote:Things like Street Fighter II, Sunset Riders, Zombies Ate My Neighbors, and Mortal Kombat were all pretty iconic in those days. Being multiplats, they probably help define the generation more than just the SNES so it could be argued that they don't belong in that specific article.

I think that's a fair and reasonable thought. Still Street Fighter was a big deal on the snes and Mortal Kombat was a big deal on the Genesis. ZAMN and Sunset Riders are not defining games though.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by Omerta Mon May 15, 2017 8:47 pm

People were citing the anecdotal game swapping and advertising over-exposure of games like Uniracers (which I'd never heard of until the SNES was long dead) and Secret of Mana so I figured ZAMN and Sunset were in that category. Maybe not.

I'm kinda surprised to see so much support for those two and less for TMNT IV, too. But any "Bestest XX Games for this old Machine EVAR!!!" list will always have detractors.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by isiolia Mon May 15, 2017 9:08 pm

strangenova wrote:I think that's a fair and reasonable thought. Still Street Fighter was a big deal on the snes and Mortal Kombat was a big deal on the Genesis. ZAMN and Sunset Riders are not defining games though.


I'd say it was limited to a particular window at best.

SFII had about a year or so on SNES of being the main home version available (computer versions also got released, but most were only in Europe).

By the time CE/Turbo/etc came home, the Genesis version was right behind them, same with Super (and you had stuff like the 3DO port as well).

MK was simply censorship, which was only relevant to the first one.

A lot of it really ends up more as a comparison of ports, except for the initial release of SFII on SNES exclusively.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by Jmustang1968 Mon May 15, 2017 9:13 pm

Omerta wrote:People were citing the anecdotal game swapping and advertising over-exposure of games like Uniracers (which I'd never heard of until the SNES was long dead) and Secret of Mana so I figured ZAMN and Sunset were in that category. Maybe not.

I'm kinda surprised to see so much support for those two and less for TMNT IV, too. But any "Bestest XX Games for this old Machine EVAR!!!" list will always have detractors.


Secret of Mana did sell well. It was a well known game at the time, much more so than Earthbound. I am not even a huge SoM fan, but I have to objectively say it was a defining game.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by o.pwuaioc Tue May 16, 2017 8:46 am

Jmustang1968 wrote:
Omerta wrote:People were citing the anecdotal game swapping and advertising over-exposure of games like Uniracers (which I'd never heard of until the SNES was long dead) and Secret of Mana so I figured ZAMN and Sunset were in that category. Maybe not.

I'm kinda surprised to see so much support for those two and less for TMNT IV, too. But any "Bestest XX Games for this old Machine EVAR!!!" list will always have detractors.


Secret of Mana did sell well. It was a well known game at the time, much more so than Earthbound. I am not even a huge SoM fan, but I have to objectively say it was a defining game.

It was outsold by Chrono Trigger and FFIII in the US, and barely beat out FFII, according to VGChartz, but I don't know how accurate that site is.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by Ziggy587 Tue May 16, 2017 11:11 am

Good, I'm glad someone made this topic. My two strongest opinions (Earthbound and Uniracers) that I voiced in the other thread were echoed enough times here, so I wont bother making a wall of text for them.



Here's my quick opinions on the current list...

Defining Games:

Super Mario World
The Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past
Donkey Kong Country (series)
Star Fox
Super Metroid
Super Mario Kart

No one can argue that the above games defined the SNES. These were all huge sellers, anyone that owned a SNES had at least one of these games. If you didn't have all of them, it was most likely only because games were $50-70 and you couldn't afford to buy all of them.

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island

I'm not too sure about this one. I know it didn't sell poorly, and I remember it getting a lot of hype. IIRC, it was a pack in game, so that might make it defining for many. I just don't remember it being ultra popular like the above games. I think it gained a lot more popularity in retrospect, after the SNES was relevant. Maybe make it an honorable mention?

Super Mario All-Stars
F-Zero
Final Fantasy (series)
Chrono Trigger
Super Mario RPG

Again, I don't think anyone can argue the above games. Personally, I didn't have nor care about FF or Chrono back when, but that's because I wasn't too interested in RPGs as a kid. Still, I very well knew what these games were, and I always spotted them in other people's collection. All-Stars and F-Zero just seem like no-brainers.

Earthbound
Super Punch-Out!!

I vote to take these two off the list, not even an honorable mention. Earthbound was a hidden gem back when, but you can't even call it that anymore. Super Punch Out!! didn't seem to be that big of a deal back when, and it's still not (although I like it).

Mega Man X

I'm pretty sure X was the biggest deal of all the Mega Man's on the SNES, but maybe it should be made Mega Man (series)? From what I've read around the internet, it seems like MM7 gets a lot of hate, but I remember it being REALLY popular at the time.

Killer Instinct

This game was well known at the time, but how many peopled actually owned it? I feel like everyone was too busy playing Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. I don't know enough about this one to really have an opinion one way or the other though, but I feel like it was overshadowed by the two kings of 90's fighting games.

Pilot Wings

Pilot Wings definitely defines the SNES. And I know I can say that objectively because I have never owned it, and I never really cared for it. Still, it was a big deal when the SNES launched.

Uniracers

Uni-what? Hidden Gem.

Honorable Mentions:
Secret of Mana
Super Castlevania IV
Contra III

These three should definitely be moved to the Defining list.

Act Raiser - I think this one should be removed.

Kirby Super Star - I'm not sure about this one.

Street Fighter II: Turbo

This one is hard to say without defining what "Defining Games" means a little more. Someone else said it, and I think they're right. Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat were multiplatform, they defined the generation more than any one system. Not to say that a Defining Game has to be a console exclusive, but it helps. Maybe this fits right in with honorable mentions. I think we should consider making it Street Fighter II & variants though, a lot of people owned either the original or Turbo (not so much Super). And on that note, I think Mortal Kombat (series) should be right beside it. Sure, the first game was censored, but if you had a SNES in the 90's then you just made do. MK was at least as big as SF was, all the kids on the playground were sharing finishing moves and spreading rumors.

Earthworm Jim
Flashback/Out of This World
Rock ‘n Roll Racing
Shadowrun
Super Smash TV
SuperPuyoPuyo / Kirby’s Avalanche

The above games I don't really know enough about, to be honest. But going off of what I know (being a kid that grew up with the SNES) I don't see how any of these define the console.

Terranigma

I couldn't say if this game helped define the SNES in Japan or Europe, but it certainly didn't define the SNES in America since it was never released here. Why is this on the list (twice, no less!) and Illusion of Gaia isn't?

Tetris Attack
Kirby’s Dream Course

Meh.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time

I think this should be moved to the main list. This game was huge at the time (as was the franchise). It's synonymous with SNES beat-em-ups.

Gradius III
Megaman 7
Super Star Wars Series
Terranigma
Dragon Warrior Series

Meh to all of these. I said above that maybe MM7 should be lumped together with MMX, but I would be OK with it remaining an honorable mention. The rest of them, I think they're more appropriate for a best of or top X list than a defining games list. Gradius III is noteworthy for being one of the few launch title games. But if it makes the list, than SimCity should as well.

edit: And I can't help but feeling like we missed one or two games that should at least be honorable mentioned, but I'd have to think about it more when I'm not at work.
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Re: Re-defining the Defining Games of the SNES

by alienjesus Tue May 16, 2017 11:50 am

Street Fighter 2 was a system seller for the SNES for quite some time before it arrived on the other consoles. I think it should be counted. It's games that defined the SNES, not 'games that defined the SNES but didn't define any other console'. You talked SNES in the early 90s, you talked Street Fighter 2.

And I still think Final Fight was a more significant beat-emup for SNES than Turtles. Turtles wasn't common at all here, and we loved the Turtles. More people owned the Power Rangers beat-em-up. Sure that's anecdotal evidence, so not worth a huge amount, but at the same time I remember the whole Final Fight vs Streets of Rage thing being a big playground debate. It was one of those games you spoke about the say why your system was so awesome - 'Final Fight is just like an Arcade game! Streets of Rage has tiny characters! Final Fight is way better!'
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