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MrPopo
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by MrPopo Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:21 am

Reprise wrote:The Turok remaster comes to Switch next week. Any fans? I loved the hell out of the first Turok as a kid, so might pick it up if (or when) the price is right. It was the only one I played to completion, other than the lacklustre Evolution on Gamecube.

Hopefully they also release Turok 2 and maybe even 3.

I played through the PC remasters of 1 & 2. They're both quite solid titles, though there's definitely some design decisions that are a bit janky at times. What I will say is that since they were very early console FPS's they hadn't yet had the edges smoothed off to be suitable for controllers, so they play closer to mid 90s PC FPS's than say Halo.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Tanooki Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm

noiseredux wrote:I thought I had heard that it was Turok 1 & 2 coming to Switch? Am I remembering wrong?


Stories I read said both, nothing about same time though. Sometimes people stagger for better sales, much like Diablo on GoG also had a smaller note about both Warcraft games coming next but a bit later.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Reprise Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:56 pm

MrPopo wrote:
Reprise wrote:The Turok remaster comes to Switch next week. Any fans? I loved the hell out of the first Turok as a kid, so might pick it up if (or when) the price is right. It was the only one I played to completion, other than the lacklustre Evolution on Gamecube.

Hopefully they also release Turok 2 and maybe even 3.

I played through the PC remasters of 1 & 2. They're both quite solid titles, though there's definitely some design decisions that are a bit janky at times. What I will say is that since they were very early console FPS's they hadn't yet had the edges smoothed off to be suitable for controllers, so they play closer to mid 90s PC FPS's than say Halo.


It's been years since I've played Turok. Remind me, was it one of those games that used the analogue stick for movement like an adventure game (i.e. moving forwards, backwards and turning)? Or is one of the ones that allowed full 360 aiming with the analogue stick and movement with the c-buttons? Have controls been modernised in the remaster or have they been kept authentic? I imagine a modern dual analogue setup shouldn't feel too bad if it was one of those games that used the c-buttons for movement and the stick for aiming.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by MrPopo Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm

I believe on the N64 it uses c-buttons for forward/back/strafe and analog stick for look. Obviously the PC port is standard kb+m. Goldeneye actually had that same control scheme as 1.2 (default is 1.1), and I always switch once I learned about it. The main thing that stands out compared to a more modern console FPS is that it has a Quake-style cornucopia of weapons you have all at once, so you flip through all of them to get to the one you want. Whereas modern console tends to be either switch between two or four (depending on if they want to use the d-pad for weapon switching or a single button).
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Arenegeth Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:10 am

I feel dirty...

Last night I caved in and bought (pre-bought more like) the Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon Classic Edition for the Switch.

I picked the Switch version over the PS4 one (Vita? What's that?) basically only because of the game's manual, which the PS4 version didn't include.

This is not a game that benefits from the power advantage that the PS4 (Pro or normal) has on the Switch, and I got the game on Steam already anyway and PC always outperforms everything.

I weighted the pros and cons and the only advantage the PS4 version had over the Switch, was the Trophy's. But again, I got the Steam version's achievements for that, and you know I'm completing the game whenever I end up playing it anyway, I don't need a badge on some profile to show off what I've done to others, I couldn't care any less, so the booklet was the deciding factor.

But here's the thing, I remembered that the pre-orders for the game were going live on the 15th, but it was a very busy hectic day for me, so I missed the original opening, since as a responsible adult, I actually have bigger priorities than hunting game pre-orders online. Yeah, yeah I know, that's what bots are for, well I still got too much respect for myself to set up a pre-order bot, I can't even bring myself to set up a sniping bot on eBay.

So I get home all tired and sleep deprived after a long day of doing several things all over the city, to see that the second, and final pre-order opening was in 5 hours or so. But I wanted to sleep, and I figured I set up an alarm to wake me, close to go time, but I got all wired up and couldn't sleep because of it, so I adequately caffeinated myself and listened to some podcasts while the clock was ticking down.

It got to go time, I refresh the page when the clock hit 0 because LRG can't do a modern page from 2019 that refreshes itself apparently and placed my order, after having to wait in line for a few seconds, because they had too many people trying to pre-order the thing at the same time. By the time I finished paying and went back to the store page, the game had already sold out.

You see this is what I'm talking about, I paid for the game on the 15th of March, and it will most likely get to me in early July, since is set to ship in late June, and that's because it hasn't even being manufactured yet. Then why limit the quantity?

This is the artificial scarcity bullshit that pisses me off about this company. You want me to pay months in advance, I get that, since you are printing a limited amount anyway (limited based on interest alone, most mainstream gamers don't give a crap about physical releases specifically) and want to guarantee the sale, but why limit it beyond the demand?

This is unheard of in any other industry (well maybe DVD's and Blu-Ray's do it too these days , I don't know), unless you are limited by the actual materials used to make a thing, you do not limit something beyond the demand. But in the gaming industry, you do, because you want to create an artificial emotional manipulation cycle to feed off compulsive people and super fans. Oh and make sure limit the item to two per customer, because you know you want to flip the extra one to the poor sap who really wanted the game, but unlike the rest of us, actually had a life and something better to do at the very small window (literally under a minute in this case) when the pre-orders opened, and wasn't crazy enough to mess up his sleep patterns (I only managed to sleep two hours since) and stay up in the middle of the night, so your artificial clock, for your artificial scarcity, had to wind down, so they can pay you money, for something that's not even made yet, months in advance!

Well *redacted* the *redacted up the *redacted*!

Well I choose not to be part of the problem anymore, I don't mind paying the $75 (this includes the Steam version double dipping) or so that the game cost me, plus goodies, since I think is worth it, but I do mind having to hunt down the pre-order button during a minuscule window, just because.

This is the first and last game I buy from LRG (I bought a Fangamer release through them once before, but it was months after it came out) I put a moratorium in all their releases from now on, limited edition scams or their normal versions which they finally decided not to artificially limit.

Sorry for the rant, I'm tired, sleep deprived, and disgusted with myself.

Have a nice day.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Reprise Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:27 am

MrPopo wrote:I believe on the N64 it uses c-buttons for forward/back/strafe and analog stick for look. Obviously the PC port is standard kb+m. Goldeneye actually had that same control scheme as 1.2 (default is 1.1), and I always switch once I learned about it. The main thing that stands out compared to a more modern console FPS is that it has a Quake-style cornucopia of weapons you have all at once, so you flip through all of them to get to the one you want. Whereas modern console tends to be either switch between two or four (depending on if they want to use the d-pad for weapon switching or a single button).


Yeah, fortunately most N64 games offered that setup, even if it wasn't the default control scheme. In fact, some games offered dual analogue controls if you had two controllers plugged in.

I've just watched some footage on Youtube of the Switch version. It has gyro controls for those who like that kind of thing. Otherwise, it has standard modern FPS controls. L and R cycle through weapons, ZL is jump and ZR is shoot. Y is display the map and the analogue sticks obviously control as any modern shooter does.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by MrPopo Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:41 am

You see this is what I'm talking about, I paid for the game on the 15th of March, and it will most likely get to me in early July, since is set to ship in late June, and that's because it hasn't even being manufactured yet. Then why limit the quantity?

The company doing the actual manufacturing might require batch sizes; LRG might have to order things in batches of 1000 or whatever. So if they think they can sell 1500 it makes more sense economically to only manufacture the 1000 to ensure everything sells out, rather than sit on 500 units of unsold inventory that cost them money.

Also, this is a luxury product. Everyone has had access to Curse of the Moon for over a year now. This product exists to be shelf candy, so again, it makes sense to limit supply to ensure everything sells (and to justify a higher price for it).
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Arenegeth Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:32 pm

MrPopo wrote:The company doing the actual manufacturing might require batch sizes; LRG might have to order things in batches of 1000 or whatever.

Or they might just be greedy, purposefully creating artificial scarcity, to fleece the compulsive fans, and people desperate for physical releases in an increasingly digital world. While fueling the scalper market.

How do you know how or why they operate exactly, have you seen their inner documents or something? Most importantly, why as a consumer you would ever argue against your own interests?

MrPopo wrote:Also, this is a luxury product.

The whole industry is a luxury, hell as someone who comes from an impoverished background, the whole first world is a luxury in itself full of things that in decades past would be described as decadence.

What does that have to do with anything? Is it OK, to purposefully limit stock because is a luxury? Scalping is OK because its a luxury? Lootboxes are OK because is a luxury?

And again, why would you, as a consumer, wouldn't want for these things to be available for everybody, why would you ever be OK with having to be online at a very certain time, for a product that will go out of stock in less than a minute, and could theoretically be manufactured as much as demand needs it to?

I can see how all of this would benefit them in fact I know how it benefits them, what I can't see is how it benefits you.

You're willing to put up with it because you gotta have the shiny and you don't care about getting fleeced, more power to ya, and if you don't care about this type of item in general, more power to ya still, though in that case, you might be better off leaving the people who they are actually fleecing worry and argue about it.

Why would you ever argue against better options as a consumer? Even if everything you said was right, why wouldn't want to have a better deal? Instead something that benefits a business entity that makes profit off of you, instead of the benefit of you, and every consumer like you.

I'm sorry, but I will always advocate for consumer rights and call out bad business practices no matter what.

In other words, I'll keep advocating for your interests even if you won't.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Reprise Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:11 pm

Arenegeth wrote:
MrPopo wrote:The company doing the actual manufacturing might require batch sizes; LRG might have to order things in batches of 1000 or whatever.

Or they might just be greedy, purposefully creating artificial scarcity, to fleece the compulsive fans, and people desperate for physical releases in an increasingly digital world. While fueling the scalper market.


They do have to order things in batches of 1000 actually. At least, I'm fairly sure I've read them say that before.

I don't know why it takes them so long to manufacture and ship stuff though. Super Rare Games (copycat type company from the UK) are way better. You pre-order (or order) and literally have to wait a week or two max before shipping begins. They decide in advance how many batches to order and manufacture and then put stuff up for pre-ordering.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by MrPopo Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:47 pm

Oh good. I was missing the "I'm totally advocating for you" since Tanooki cooled off. These conversations never get old.
Or they might just be greedy, purposefully creating artificial scarcity, to fleece the compulsive fans, and people desperate for physical releases in an increasingly digital world. While fueling the scalper market.

How do you know how or why they operate exactly, have you seen their inner documents or something? Most importantly, why as a consumer you would ever argue against your own interests?

You do realize that everything has an "artificial" scarcity because if a company produces too much supply they're left with unsold inventory and lose money, right? And a company that loses too much money goes out of business, which means now I can't purchase anything they used to make. Is that in my interest?

Your disbelief in how manufacturing works doesn't mean it's not true. Now, I don't know the specific lot sizes they have to deal with, but it is a very real thing. Anyone who did even a cursory look into manufacturing contracts would know it's a thing.
The whole industry is a luxury, hell as someone who comes from an impoverished background, the whole first world is a luxury in itself full of things that in decades past would be described as decadence.

What does that have to do with anything? Is it OK, to purposefully limit stock because is a luxury? Scalping is OK because its a luxury? Lootboxes are OK because is a luxury?

That was a good job misinterpreting what I said in order to continue your outrage train. The game already exists, as I said. Do you know why it didn't already exist in a physical form? Because it wasn't cost effective to do so in the scale that standard game publishers deal with. Here comes LRG; they believe there is a market for people who want to pay more for physical releases, and they're right. But they also know it's a niche market, because most people care about whether or not they can play the game. And guess what, digital games are very playable. That's what I meant by LRG being a luxury; they're satisfying the people who feel strongly about having something tangible to go with their digital goods. And you knew that's what I meant, but since it doesn't fit in with your outrage narrative you glossed over it.

It is ok to purposefully limit stock for anything that you can't classify as a necessity. Companies can't magically have more inventory show up just because you want to buy one. And if they misjudge the demand they can take a major hit. If you're selling a AAA title and ship 5 million units, but only sell 4.5 million the balance sheet looks very different then if you're selling a physical version of a digital release, ship 2000 copies and only sell 1500 units. As for scalping, you could argue that traditional retail is already "scalping"; they get it cheaper from a distributor than they sell it to you. Scalping is people taking a chance on the idea that they can get more money for something than they paid for it. I certainly hope you've never sold an old SNES game for more than $60-80 (depending on the title); selling Earthbound for $200 or whatever it goes for now is scalping. As for lootboxes, I feel that lootboxes that gate cosmetic or otherwise reasonably attainable content (e.g. Overwatch and TF2) is fine, but when the content is exclusive and materially affects gameplay or is hard enough to attain through free gameplay that the average player would feel compelled to purchase them then it's crossed a line. They should serve more as a reward for playing with the option to accelerate the reward, rather than a barrier to enjoy the game.

And again, why would you, as a consumer, wouldn't want for these things to be available for everybody, why would you ever be OK with having to be online at a very certain time, for a product that will go out of stock in less than a minute, and could theoretically be manufactured as much as demand needs it to?

It's not a question of want, it's a question of understanding the economic realities of the situation. I could create a long list of things I want that I sure as hell won't get because it's not feasible. Complaining about how unfair it is that you don't get something you want is the actions of a petulant child. I assume you've never tried to purchase tickets for SDCC or PAX; it's the same thing. Sure, with cons you have the fire code capping attendance, but as pointed out earlier, manufacturing contracts mean that LRG is just as limited in their ability to set stock. Now, let me float an idea to you. What if they made preorders unlimited within a two week window, but people at the tail who fall into a partial batch can have their preorder cancelled and their money refunded (e.g. 1000 manufacturing batch size, 2500 people preorder, the first 2000 get their item and the last 500 get a refund)? Would that be a better solution for you? Because that seems like a bigger feel bad for customers than "I didn't get one of these limited spots", which we're already used to for concerts and other such items.

Why would you ever argue against better options as a consumer? Even if everything you said was right, why wouldn't want to have a better deal? Instead something that benefits a business entity that makes profit off of you, instead of the benefit of you, and every consumer like you.

Again, I can want things all day long, but no amount of wanting will change some basic realities of the businesses involved. And it's certainly not worth getting worked up over. A mild "man, I missed out" is sufficient. When you miss out on concert tickets do you loudly complain that they should have used a bigger venue?

I'm sorry, but I will always advocate for consumer rights and call out bad business practices no matter what.

So fiscal solvency is a bad business practice now? I'm pretty sure it's exactly the opposite. And consumers do NOT have the right to infinite supply.
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