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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by CFFJR Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:48 pm

dsheinem wrote:
BogusMeatFactory wrote: Hold zl and press Y or X to roll. Hold y to climb faster. You are welcome.

Does this duplicate the exact same effect as shaking? I share the frustration with needing to shake the controller to play more efficiently and don't remember an alternative solution being available. It was for that same reason that I never played the game in handheld mode, as requiring motion controls in a game that otherwise rewards the player for precision is an especially terrible idea on a portable system.

Nope, it does not. You can start a roll this way. There's also a way to start a roll at top speed by coming out of a ground pound. But maintaining top speed in a roll? Thou must shake.

In fact, to all, just for the record on this:

Same is true of climbing. You can climb faster with Y. You can climber even faster than that by holding Y and shaking.

Watch the speedrunners, they shake a lot.

Captured a bullet bill? Shake to reach top speed. As an example, there's a moon in the desert kingdom that asks you to capture a bullet bill and fly out to it's position high on a pillar. The bill will detonate too early if you try to reach it by just holding Y. If you shake, you can make it. It's possible to get to the pillar without shaking thanks to Mario's crazy mobility, but when I was playing the game on day 1 I didn't know that, nor would I have been practiced enough to pull it off. I made by it shaking (and if I recall correctly, you need the bill to destroy a chest or something on the pillar). It seems clear that this is the "intended" method for collecting the moon. Many capture abilities can only be done by shaking.

Certain cappy moves, like the vertical toss, also require a shake of the controller.

I'm not offering a personal position on whether the motion stuff is good or bad. I honestly don't care.

Are any of these things REQUIRED to get every moon? No, absolutely not, especially at this point where players have deconstructed the game to hell and back. That doesn't make it convenient or efficient though.

Are these moves and speed options only available by utilizing the motion controls? Yes, absolutely.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by dsheinem Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:05 pm

^ Thanks! That's what I thought I remembered, though I never played it to collect all the moons/stars/whatever.

I think the confusion above is mostly around the idea of "force". Perhaps it is better to say that the game's integration of motion controls is a deliberate design choice for which there is no alternative available. I tend to think that it is a bad design choice, since:

A) motion controls don't usually afford the kind of precision that a controller does, and the platformer genre is one that is historically grounded in/celebrates precision


B) motion controls are a bad idea when you have to shake/twist/move the screen to use them (while also trying to watch the screen at the same time)
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by marurun Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:33 pm

DSH's summation seems the most accurate and to-the-point. I agree that those design decisions seem a tad questionable (IMO). I have nothing against motion controls and the people who enjoy using them, but I do wish every motion control function had a button combination counterpart. I'm not a big fan of motion controls in certain types of games, and I like being able to decide for myself which method is best.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Tanooki Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:42 pm

I remember the game strongly hinting/encouraging the wiggle to do a move or two that helps out, but there I was thinking was a way out of it. I sadly forgot to finish this, and played it before I had a pro controller so I can't say if that may make the change. It's not as bad as like how the WiiU did force stuff as did the DS too.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by PartridgeSenpai Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:49 pm

Tanooki wrote:I remember the game strongly hinting/encouraging the wiggle to do a move or two that helps out, but there I was thinking was a way out of it. I sadly forgot to finish this, and played it before I had a pro controller so I can't say if that may make the change. It's not as bad as like how the WiiU did force stuff as did the DS too.

Early titles on the Wii and the DS were TERRIBLE for needlessly pushing motion/touch screen integration in games that it did not benefit at ALL. My favorite example for Wii is how you need to flick the Wiimote up in order to freaking JUMP in de Blob 1.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Tanooki Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:54 pm

Oh trust me I know. I wasted some good money on games that ended up infuriating me because waggle play never worked right 100% of the time, more like 75%. I had deBlob as a gift and it drove me nuts how hard it was by bad design, not by the structure of the game itself, but waggle failure. The Zelda games on DS were god awful, anytime you try and change direction in a hurry, ROLL LINK ROLL TO YOUR DEATH. That got so infuriating I never even bought the sequel and ditched the first. I may have tolerated it more had the rerun dungeon from hell wasn't part of the game too. :P Force controls, especially those that are imprecise are a huge no no in my book after being exposed to it by force in Nintendo titles on both those formats. Anything that has the potential for it now I read into, and if I see qualified complaining I couldn't be paid to play it.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Xeogred Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:56 pm

Loving Smash. I haven't been this big on them since Melee honestly, didn't even bother playing the U one much. I have some fond memories with the level editor for the Wii one, but the tripping was so trash.

This one is just chalk full of everything, a celebration of not only the Smash Bros series, but gaming itself honestly with all these deep cut nods and whatnot.

World of Light is so monstrous though I don't even know if I'll finish it, haha. I think I'll be content just unlocking all the characters. If you back up to the main mode every five levels, you generally get a challenge. The Spirit Board seems inconsistent to me but I'm not sure. Or you can do a run in Classic Mode which is really fun, I also noticed it can be co-op with two player... that's got to be awesome. I like that World of Light has its own character selection and unlocking too though, so it's forcing me to switch up and try more characters compared to the other modes.

Had a party with 7 on Saturday and we played a ton at a friends, it was pure chaos with booze though so we didn't really get into anything deeper beyond hectic huge battles with us all. But when I got the game myself it was easy to see we didn't even scratch the surface of all the content here.

Still discovering who my main's will be. I have to say, damn they messed up base Link pretty badly haha. His neutral A combo is kind of whatever, his running A has a strange delay and jump which is a pain, and the remote bombs are fun but can be completely worthless if you don't get to detonate them. Luckily Kid Link seems better and like the classics, haven't gotten Toon Link yet.

Samus seems kind of... subpar now too. A weird mish mash of some average moves and an easy to dodge charge up attack. Not sure what to think of her anymore. Haven't played Zero Suit enough to judge that form.

Kirby was Godlike in the original to me and seems better here again, but still not interesting compared to everyone else now.

I always do really well with Zelda, only issue is two slow B moves and she doesn't have a lot of range up close. I always love using her though. I miss the days when her and Sheik were the same character and just transformations... but that was so overpowered in the right hands like myself! Both characters are still awesome on their own though.

My man Captain Falcon still rocks, but is a bit high risk high reward. Fast and hits like a tank, but doesn't have a lot of range or any projectiles, with a weak jump. Simon Belmont seems awesome and similar, hits really hard, has great speed and projectiles, better range, but still a weak jump. I got Richter recently and am excited to check him out, I know the differences probably aren't much but he's got a cooler look!

Out of the classic Fire Emblem characters, I think I like Ike the most thesedays. A bit slower, but hits like a tank too, great range, and his over-B really rocks compared to what Roy and Marth have to me. Robin is a mystery to me, not sure about her yet.

Donkey Kong seems great in this one. Mario is whatever, but I always loved Dr. Mario and still need to get him.

Fox I'm not sure about anymore, seems kind of weak... but then I guess someone just won the first tournament with him haha. Need to play more of him and Falco again.

Plenty of characters I want to checkout and study up on, still need plenty of unlocks though. I'm very curious about Cloud. And I was watching a streamer I follow playing Corrin who looks really cool and way more unique compared to the other FE characters.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by noiseredux Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:21 am

new NES games on the Online Service today... Ninja Gaiden, Adventures of Lolo and Wario's Woods. And as has become tradition, new "SP" versions of Metroid and Dr. Mario.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Omerta Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Windjammers and Celeste are getting physical releases on Switch from Limited Run Games. There's still time to order Shantae and the Pirate's Curse, too.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Reprise Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:18 pm

Is Shantae worth ordering? I'm kinda on the fence. I've never played a Shantae game before and to be honest I think I'm picking up way too many of these 'limited' Switch and Vita games and not playing anywhere near enough of them to justify the premium price.
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