NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii
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ElkinFencer10
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Re: Wii: A failure

by ElkinFencer10 Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:06 pm

marurun wrote:In the US the Wii was never advertised, marketed, or positioned as a DIRECT competitor to the 360 or PS3. In fact, I'm pretty sure Nintendo were right up-front about the Wii being a different experience. And it was Sony and MS who later decided they needed to be in competition with the Wii. PS Move and Kinect, anyone? I knew a lot more people who had a 360 and a Wii or a PS3 and a Wii than had a 360 and a PS3. Calling the Wii a failure as a direct competitor to the 360 and PS3 is like calling the Maple Leafs (hockey team) a failure as a direct competitor to the English Premier League (football/soccer). They're both playing sports, but they aren't playing the same game.

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Re: Wii: A failure

by RCBH928 Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:52 pm

marurun wrote:In the US the Wii was never advertised, marketed, or positioned as a DIRECT competitor to the 360 or PS3. In fact, I'm pretty sure Nintendo were right up-front about the Wii being a different experience. And it was Sony and MS who later decided they needed to be in competition with the Wii. PS Move and Kinect, anyone? I knew a lot more people who had a 360 and a Wii or a PS3 and a Wii than had a 360 and a PS3. Calling the Wii a failure as a direct competitor to the 360 and PS3 is like calling the Maple Leafs (hockey team) a failure as a direct competitor to the English Premier League (football/soccer). They're both playing sports, but they aren't playing the same game.


While what you say is 100% correct the Wii was the first console IIRC to go in this path causing all the confusion, and certainly the first by Nintendo as all previous Nintendo home consoles targeted the main "hardcore" gamer.

When Wii launched during the conference we saw a lot of games that I would say a competing offering against PS3/360 including Red Steel and vaporware Project H.A.M.M.E.R. and a lot of motion control demonstration. Its true they delivered on most of those games, I had the impression that there was more in the pipeline which unfortunately did not seem to be the case. Personally, I really thought it would be like the Wii will be getting their own version of each multiplatform out there with motion controls implemented as the competitive advantage.

isiolia wrote:Nintendo's marketing from the start accounted for trying to expand the audience, which is a lot of where the success of the Wii came from. They did try to cater to the core audience as well, and did have a large variety of games in the E3 presentation and at launch. Realistically, they did the same thing with the Wii U, which had ACIII, Mass Effect 3, Arkham City and so on early on, with reduced third party support when sales didn't pan out.

Meanwhile, MS and Sony tried to offer motion controls, and some all-ages stuff, but again, that's not what most people bought the system for to start with.

The Wii did end up having a lot of unique content too, thanks to being the oddball basically-SD console on the market, and a huge install base to try and capture a sliver of. As mentioned, there are a good number of more core gamer type things that did get released on the system, and nowhere else, as opposed to so many of the big titles outside of that being PC/360/PS3. So, it can be an interesting library to dig into, now, or in the future, even if it wouldn't be your desert island pick (certainly wouldn't be mine).


Wii's advantage was motion control. Releasing ACIII, Mass Effect, and Arkham City bombed because they are a worse version than their PS4/X1 counterparts so why get a Wii U? The idea of a tablet controller is nice but I don't know why it didn't pickup or been utilized better.

PS3/360 implementation of motion control totally sucked with expensive controller add-ons and I don't think the kinect worked well not to mention the later on constant camera recording you. That being said I see a 0 reason that Wii "family" games can't be implemented on 360/PS3. In fact that is a nice library of it like Just Dance, Rockband, Sonic/Crash kart racers, modnation, LBP, Portal, World of Goo, You don't know Jack, and Buzz.

It would be interesting to see if Wii's library is actually the more unique between it, PS3, and 360. Maybe PS3/360 had more but overshadowed by the big titles. But I must say when it comes to uniqueness the Wii must be the most different given most games probably had the motion controls on it and many were probably exclusive. Are they good or are they just enjoyed by the person that likes obscurities just because...that is another question and to each his own.
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Re: Wii: A failure

by alienjesus Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:36 pm

Its been eleven fucking years since this topic was started and nothing has changed about the discussion. :roll:
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Re: Wii: A failure

by prfsnl_gmr Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:21 pm

alienjesus wrote:Its been eleven fucking years since this topic was started and nothing has changed about the discussion. :roll:


:lol:

Eleven years and 37 pages later, the question remains: Was the Wii a failure? The world may never know...
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Re: Wii: A failure

by ElkinFencer10 Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:10 pm

alienjesus wrote:Its been eleven fucking years since this topic was started and nothing has changed about the discussion. :roll:

WE ARE THE LOYAL WII BRIGADE, AND WE WILL DEFEND OUR LIEGE UNTIL OUR DEATHS.
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Re: Wii: A failure

by isiolia Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:10 pm

RCBH928 wrote:Wii's advantage was motion control. Releasing ACIII, Mass Effect, and Arkham City bombed because they are a worse version than their PS4/X1 counterparts so why get a Wii U? The idea of a tablet controller is nice but I don't know why it didn't pickup or been utilized better.


My opinion: motion control succeeded on the Wii because it can be a very intuitive form of control for the kind of software that Nintendo sold the console to new audiences on. Second screen control, on the other hand, often adds complexity or means looking away from the action. Jets or race cars aren't moving vital information into the pilot's lap, they're putting them on a HUD.
That said, Nintendo did probably look at the use patterns and realized that a personal screen for gaming was something people valued, leading to the Switch.

Otherwise, sure, the early ports weren't perfect. They were generally comparable to PS3/360 versions (though sometimes a little better), but a number also came out late. I just mentioned them to illustrate that Nintendo did continue to try catering to the core audience too (and continued to, publishing Bayonetta 2 for example).

PS3/360 implementation of motion control totally sucked with expensive controller add-ons and I don't think the kinect worked well not to mention the later on constant camera recording you. That being said I see a 0 reason that Wii "family" games can't be implemented on 360/PS3. In fact that is a nice library of it like Just Dance, Rockband, Sonic/Crash kart racers, modnation, LBP, Portal, World of Goo, You don't know Jack, and Buzz.


There's nothing really preventing all ages, couch multiplayer style games from being on MS or Sony platforms, sure. As you mentioned, there are a number present on the systems, and some of them did sell well. Functionally, motion control stuff on them was fine...but it was introduced later, only supported by select games, and wasn't cheap.

The Wii, on the other hand, had the focus and marketing for it out of the gate. Want to play video game tennis by waving the familiar-looking remote at the TV, instead of trying to figure out that button-laden boomerang? Buy the Nintendo. Similar thing with Wii Fit and the like later. Motion control wasn't a feature-add, but a core part of the system's identity. The DS, a year or so earlier, was a similar sell. Use a stylus, play things like Nintendogs or Brain Age. Obviously, it has a stellar library for core gamers too, but a lot of people didn't buy them for that. My mom was the first in my family to get a DS, for puzzle games. None of us sold her on it, Nintendo's advertising did.

It would be interesting to see if Wii's library is actually the more unique between it, PS3, and 360. Maybe PS3/360 had more but overshadowed by the big titles. But I must say when it comes to uniqueness the Wii must be the most different given most games probably had the motion controls on it and many were probably exclusive. Are they good or are they just enjoyed by the person that likes obscurities just because...that is another question and to each his own.


All three have unique titles, and it'd likely depend on what exactly you want - the PS3, once it got going, got a lot more JRPGs for instance. The Wii just got very unique because it differed so much in specs from MS/Sony that cross-porting to it was rarely feasible. In the same way that a lot of GBA games are kinda-sorta what continued SNES games would have been, the Wii (setting aside motion control), is kind of what continued PS2 development would have seen. Lots of variety in what was basically the last SD console. There are plenty of legit good games on it, among the shovelware.
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Re: Wii: A failure

by Ack Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:11 pm

alienjesus wrote:Its been eleven fucking years since this topic was started and nothing has changed about the discussion. :roll:

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Re: Wii: A failure

by marurun Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:16 pm

But the horse might get back up, see.
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Re: Wii: A failure

by ElkinFencer10 Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:00 pm

marurun wrote:But the horse might get back up, see.

What if the horse turns into a zombie? The T-virus works on all kinds of animals; why not horses?
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Re: Wii: A failure

by RCBH928 Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:12 pm

alienjesus wrote:Its been eleven fucking years since this topic was started and nothing has changed about the discussion. :roll:


Indeed it has been beaten to death, but after 11 years a little refresh I guess does not hurt.

@isiolia
I agree on all counts. Wii Fit, yes, I bet Wii was the most lucrative console for Nintendo. They milked it good. Either Wii or DS, but DS had many variations I do not know if its considered 1 platform or different generations.

isiolia wrote:My mom was the first in my family to get a DS, for puzzle games. None of us sold her on it, Nintendo's advertising did.


This whole thread sums into this exactly. It was smart move from Nintendo business wise to enlarge "the cake" and let more people join the videogame world and make it a standard entertainment like watching movies or reading books.
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