Wii-U thoughts so far

[Reprise]

Third parties have to pick up the slack... but historically we've seen that they're loath to do so, with arguments like Wii being a fad, or finding it difficult to compete with the first-party offerings, or recognizing that to some degree, the audience for Nintendo's systems does skew differently than the others and sometimes isn't the best fit.

Though the main problem seems to be western developers/publishers. Seriously the DS sold as much as the PS2 and yet there wasn't a single huge western developed hit. Japanese 3rd paty developers were hitting it out of the park. I just think that just how Japanese developers don't "get" how to do shooters, western developers don't "get" how to do...um...games other than the ones they're making?

Lol so true.

[Tanooki]

Third parties have to pick up the slack... but historically we've seen that they're loath to do so, with arguments like Wii being a fad, or finding it difficult to compete with the first-party offerings, or recognizing that to some degree, the audience for Nintendo's systems does skew differently than the others and sometimes isn't the best fit.

Though the main problem seems to be western developers/publishers. Seriously the DS sold as much as the PS2 and yet there wasn't a single huge western developed hit. Japanese 3rd paty developers were hitting it out of the park. I just think that just how Japanese developers don't "get" how to do shooters, western developers don't "get" how to do...um...games other than the ones they're making?

Agreed. We here used to know how to make a lot of stuff, but it seems somewhere along the line the bean counters and those with a coward streak fell into thinking then molding the market here into being conned to put FPS, western rpg, sports, racing and fighting in the forefront. The whole damn mix of those don't do well at all on and handheld, not just Nintendo. The Japanese on the other side of it, they're far better at working on more confined platforms, yet ones that allow for both long or quick plays or games that can be parked fast since their little world over there is super mobile, super connected and super on the go so most handheld stuff does best there. That's why you see such a huge push of great stuff on the Nintendo, Sony and in the past Sega systems on the go, yet in this century the Japanese influence on the home market has been getting more and more terrible being bypassed by the western me-too junk. Nintendo WiiU doesn't really get the 'western' stuff on that front, never needed it on handhelds, so that's why you see a bleeding at home and not on the go with them. It's not a bad system, it's a bad market that has been coached into buying only certain stuff on a console.

[Jmustang1968]

Are you kidding me Tanooki? Yeah those games are popular because they have been 'coached' that way. Instead of, you know, games in those genres hit big on sales and thus more are trying to make what is popular and selling? That post is a bunch of rubbish.

[isiolia]

Though the main problem seems to be western developers/publishers. Seriously the DS sold as much as the PS2 and yet there wasn't a single huge western developed hit. Japanese 3rd paty developers were hitting it out of the park. I just think that just how Japanese developers don't "get" how to do shooters, western developers don't "get" how to do...um...games other than the ones they're making?

Nearly every top selling DS title was published by Nintendo. Kind of a trend for them.

Once you get into the million-or-less category, which is to say, the not-first-party category,
the field gets a little more diverse.

It has already started!

Started in 1997 when they published Goldeneye

[Sarge]

Well, to be honest, those genres are very much geared towards the ever-increasing technology curve. Racing, sports, and FPS are the obvious examples, fighting probably not quite as much, and Western RPGs have always seemed to thrive on the increase in technology. I think there's a fundamental difference about how Western teams approach things, on average. They tend to start with the grandiose vision, and then pare it down as best they can to fit on the platform. The DS in particular was probably a touch too weak to really push that genre, at least in a form that is more palatable to most players.

The Japanese, on the other hand, seem to start smaller, and then fill out as much as they can to the platform they're designing for. JRPGs were very much born from the limitations of the console, and as years have gone on, WRPGs have really been able to close the gap as the platforms become more capable, whereas JRPGs have struggled overall to really justify the bump in specs other than through pretty graphics.

And honestly, there are games in all those genres that I enjoy quite a bit. I'm impressed that Western devs have been able to get where they are, particularly considering how bad their output has been historically. But I do get tired of the samey, "mature" type games that seem to permeate the medium right now. Lighten up a bit, guys! (Not that I don't have the same problem with a lot of JRPGs right now. I've definitely been experiencing burnout on those to some degree, and Xenoblade isn't helping...)

I may also be full of garbage, it's Friday and I'm word-vomiting. So if I say something obviously wrong, I blame... some entity other than myself. Yeah. That's the ticket.

[Tanooki]

Pfft so you say mustang, people are coached into it over a period of a great many years as much as the industry has put itself in that box by finding safe stuff they can peddle yearly that'll sell in the millions to the same people year after year to stay in the black. The daring don't win much on physical media anymore, the cost of entry versus the huge risk behind it has condemned much of it to handheld systems and largely tablet/phone gaming and console based download services. It's hardly rubbish, it happened and is still happening. The US market has lost its taste for a variety of genres and games compared to the stuff you see in Japan, many more things happen there that won't fly here anymore.

Sarge gets it and nailed it with that closing, the western buyers are into that samey 'mature' type games more than anything else that permeates our market and that really just does suck. There's a place for all kinds of games, but it seems more and more in our market here, you play in that limited pool of genres, or you peddle your wares on cheaper formats (handhelds, tablets, touch phones, and 'indie' downloads) which is sad.

[BogusMeatFactory]

@ Tanooki

Please stop disregarding people's statements simply because they do not match your own. Please stop using the, "I worked in the industry," excuse, because that doesn't make you some sort of expert. If you want to make an argument, please back it up with facts. You make blind statements like

That's why you see such a huge push of great stuff on the Nintendo, Sony and in the past Sega systems on the go, yet in this century the Japanese influence on the home market has been getting more and more terrible being bypassed by the western me-too junk.

What does that even mean? How is it being bypassed?

I feel like the argument being stated here is, "Japanese games are cool and original and Western Games are not," and that also is an incredibly false statement. Look at titles like Guacamelee, Minecraft (is that considered western? Eastern European?), Rayman Legends, The Last of Us, Heavy Rain, Ratchet & Clank Future...all selling over 1 million units and also being non-eastern developers for a console and not following the standard traits of their genre. Many of these games defy the general conventions of what a game is considered.

We like to conform the world around our particular views to make life more dramatic or interesting, to create conflict for the sake of conflict. Guess what? Western games aren't just shooters. Eastern games are also not all super unique flowers. We live in a time where anyone can make a game, find a platform to publish it on and express themselves through gaming. Big budget games do safer things, while smaller budget games make risks and sometimes make it big i.e. Minecraft.

That's ok.

[pepharytheworm]

^
I think he did specify physical media games, but I do agree with you.

[BogusMeatFactory]

^
I think he did specify physical media games, but I do agree with you.

I know, but I honestly do not feel that physical media makes a difference when talking about the East vs. West developer discussion.

[pepharytheworm]

^
I think he did specify physical media games, but I do agree with you.

I know, but I honestly do not feel that physical media makes a difference when talking about the East vs. West developer discussion.

But he is somewhat right on the lack of risk taking for AAA and physical media games. But at least there are other options. I do find most of the time my taste do more align with eastern developers. Part of the reason I like WiiU is its more Japanese flavor then the counterparts.