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isiolia
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by isiolia Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:24 am

Yeah, main thing I would want to see from a port is the option to use now-standard dual analog type controls. I played through Metroid Prime on Wii despite the motion controls,. They remain something I tolerated, not liked, and are a big reason for why I didn't bother playing the rest of the series.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by BogusMeatFactory Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:51 am

I don't know why y'all want an inferior control scheme. Motion controls are the best for fps games. At least feature gyro aiming, because that is as close to mouse and keyboard you can get!
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by noiseredux Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:06 am

BogusMeatFactory wrote:I don't know why y'all want an inferior control scheme. Motion controls are the best for fps games. At least feature gyro aiming, because that is as close to mouse and keyboard you can get!


I've tried them, and hate them. In my opinion the "best" control scheme is the one that works best for your own brain/hands. I've tried the gyro thing with Splatoon 2 and absolutely hated it because it just didn't mesh with my brain. And I mean, the Pro controller is amazing. It'd be cool if there was an option to use either so that the Boguses of the world can be happy with the gyro control option and the Noises of the world can be happy about the standard controller option. I mean, flexibility and 'play how you want' is one of the reasons I tend to love the Switch platform so much.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by BogusMeatFactory Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:09 am

noiseredux wrote:
BogusMeatFactory wrote:I don't know why y'all want an inferior control scheme. Motion controls are the best for fps games. At least feature gyro aiming, because that is as close to mouse and keyboard you can get!


I've tried them, and hate them. In my opinion the "best" control scheme is the one that works best for your own brain/hands. I've tried the gyro thing with Splatoon 2 and absolutely hated it because it just didn't mesh with my brain. And I mean, the Pro controller is amazing. It'd be cool if there was an option to use either so that the Boguses of the world can be happy with the gyro control option and the Noises of the world can be happy about the standard controller option. I mean, flexibility and 'play how you want' is one of the reasons I tend to love the Switch platform so much.


Oh I totally understand. Options for all! You can never go wrong, adding control options.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by MrPopo Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:23 pm

isiolia wrote:Yeah, main thing I would want to see from a port is the option to use now-standard dual analog type controls. I played through Metroid Prime on Wii despite the motion controls,. They remain something I tolerated, not liked, and are a big reason for why I didn't bother playing the rest of the series.

Original was lock on based, and it worked really well. If they used that again I'd be happy, but I'm sure they'll just go with dual analog, since the Switch natively supports that.
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isiolia
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by isiolia Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:47 pm

BogusMeatFactory wrote:I don't know why y'all want an inferior control scheme. Motion controls are the best for fps games. At least feature gyro aiming, because that is as close to mouse and keyboard you can get!


It's possible that it was the implementation for Metroid Prime, but I personally don't find motion controls to work well for that purpose outside of VR (or similar).

My reasoning for it is that modern FPS games incorporate at least three separate controls - position, rotation, and aim. Position tends to be consistent enough - your left stick, WASD, plus run/crouch/strafe/jump/whatever toggles. Usually though, on a 2D display, rotation and aim are fused together somewhat, at least in the modern take on things that has long since left stuff like lookspring behind. VR, of course, would tend to incorporate HMD tracking as well and not need to do that.
For a mouse, and to a lesser extent a joystick, this combination tends to be fine. Larger movements for rotation, and smaller ones for fine tuning aim - usually these days with a modifier to FoV to aim with more precision. A mouse has advantages anyway, but to me a key thing is that there's no effort in maintaining any adjustment. You don't need to maintain pressure like you do on a stick.

To me, motion controls can often be great for aiming. They work very well as replacements for light guns in applicable titles, or really any similar sort of control, because it's a natural way to interface with it. You see a screen element you want to interact with, and you point at it.
Where I think they tend to fail is combining that with rotation. For instance, with Metroid Prime it meant keeping the Wiimote pointed at the TV in general, and pointing near the edge to turn or look up and down. If you do things purely with gyro control there, you'd avoid some of the annoyances...but you're still basically requiring the player to hold their controller fairly still, and at relatively precise angles, the entire time. For some folks, maybe that gels with how they usually play anyway. To me, it's pretty far from ideal, and more annoying than just using a stick.

So, as already brought up, the choice should really be there. Let people play as they prefer (or are able to).
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by emwearz Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:52 pm

Heading out a few hours to pick up Smash, why don't stores open at 6am so I can play now.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Reprise Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:00 pm

MrPopo wrote:
isiolia wrote:Yeah, main thing I would want to see from a port is the option to use now-standard dual analog type controls. I played through Metroid Prime on Wii despite the motion controls,. They remain something I tolerated, not liked, and are a big reason for why I didn't bother playing the rest of the series.

Original was lock on based, and it worked really well. If they used that again I'd be happy, but I'm sure they'll just go with dual analog, since the Switch natively supports that.


This. Metroid Prime wasn't a FPS, it was a first person adventure game, therefore motion controls aren't necessary. Not that I want them removed though and I didn't hate them. Flexibility is what we need . Personally, I want to play using the original control method, as it was intended. Others might want a traditional dual analogue stick setup like all modern FPSs use and then many will want to have the motion controls. It shouldn't be complicated to allow all three of those options right?
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by Arenegeth Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:17 pm

I wish we got all sorts of controller options so everybody can use what they want but...

Nintendo has shown that they have no desire to stop aggressively pushing motion controls as if is 2006 again, and the lightning in a bottle that the Wii was in establishing its self as a mainstream fad will happen again any day now.

My biggest criticism and annoyances for Super Mario Odyssey, is the forced motion controls. Cause there's nothing I love more in 3D platformers than shaking my controller like a moron in the middle of a jump, when one of those actions could have easily been mapped on one of the many unused buttons...

Or more recently, with Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu!/Eevee! where they forced motion controls if you want to play on TV and made the Pro Controller outright unrecognizable by the game, instead of mapping the portable controls on it. Which may still technically be motion controls, but they are far superior to flinging your Joycon/Silly ball on the screen like a 3 yearold.

I mean give the 3 year old the option, just give me the option to play properly too!

I wish because Metroid is more of a core franchise, they will do the right thing and allow for Pro Controller support, but I will not be surprised if they force gyro and only gyro down our throats given precedent.
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Re: Switch Discussion Thread

by emwearz Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:31 pm

So picked up Smash and a gamecube adapter this morning, just got my 6th character in the 'story mode' and really enjoying it so far.
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