The Best Video Connections Possible...

[extrarice]

The article looks good. The links to hardware mods at gamesx are nice for those who want to go the extra mile. Sega-16 had a nice write-up as well, with comparison photos for each of the different connection methods (plus computer emulation).

[Goongrave]

Hey guys you kinda confused me with all this "too much technical" informations ^_^

I got a Saturn and I live in Europe, which is my best solution?

I have a RF connector ATM (with I think it's the worst)

On ebay there are
-S-video
-Scart: I'm a bit confused, i got 2 DC scart: 1 has got 9 pins and the other got all the 20 pins (are there any differences? which should be better for my dc-television? which for my saturn??? Is this "number of pins" thing related to Scarts that fries tv's?
RCA (composite cable).

Thank you for your help!

EDIT: it seems that the difference between the 20 pin (it a 21 pin in reality^_^) and the 9 pin Scart is HUGE:
-21 pin is REAL scart, REAL RGB
-10 pin is a FAKE RGB Scart (actually it is the "cheaper version" NON-RGB) and gives composite quality video

[Raskolnikov]

most of those older systems only put out Composite at max... some RGB. (The genny is incapable of Svid with out modifications... some of which is more difficult on version especially if using 32X like myself).

As RGB connectors (outside of the Nintendo area) are readily available through retail I'd say it is your best bet. BUT in America finding a TV that supports RGB is very difficult. Usually it's an older computer monitor that you use that supports the low 15hz signal. This again sucks for people like myself who has a big 60 inch HDTV in my living room... or just about anyone, it requires purchasing another television set that is inferior in many ways to your existing TV for your other stuff (i.e. DVD, TV) nevermind the TV is gonna be old and nearing death or low quality in many standards.

SO, best option... invest a lower amount of money but still a pretty penny for those in the USA. A RGB to Component converter box. 200 dollars about and you have yourself a nice box. It isn't exactly RGB quality for two reasons Component isn't AS good AND you've done a conversion step in analog which always lowers quality... but it is still exceptionally better then Svid which is your best bet with only some of the consoles out of box.


Now if you're going to modify... expect again VERY high prices if you really want good picture. I say if you're gonna go through this hastle why not go all the way. Replace the Analog Video encoder chip in your system. Why tap it's signal and do conversions... your tapping analog to make an analog conversion, again quality loss. SO go and just tap the raw signal prior to the retail encoder chip and purchase a nice new encoder chip that supplies what ever signal type you want. There are chips out there for reasonable prices that put out any signal type you please. Now restrictions are only left to resolution support (this kills VGA to monitor support as most monitors bottom out at 800X500... some going down to 640X480... the NES and genny and likes just can't do that with out expensive doublers). But this gives you full access to Component, RGB and all the stuff your TV will openly accept.

Down side is some of your older systems may suffer temperature changes. The chip will probably suck more juice then the earlier chip. But consoles like NES and Genny have external power bricks with enough energy to spare and dispurse the heat several feet outside of your console.

This option is great if your doing a couple consoles... but if you plan on doing more then 1 or 2 it gets very tedious and expensive. It also requires a good soldering hand and some basic know how of electricity so that you adequately ground, shield and cosmetically mod the system. In the end though, if done right will give you the best video quality especially if you get a nice chip.... Sony (despite my hatred for the company) makes some very nice encoder chips. Be careful when selecting though... you need to make sure that it accepts the incoming raw signals and that it can be made useful with the bare amount of material your console has.

Most systems only give you the syncs and RGB. These later chips sometimes require some other crap and won't function without them hooked up. For instance some require true Digital signaling that your genny just doesn't have in it. The Genny hands basic information based on scan lines to the encoder chip because at it's inception the populous used CRT monitors... LCD and Plasma weren't around a lot, if they were they had specialized controller chips that sometimes would convert analog signals... which are also used in your LCD monitor with VGA hook up. The thing is these encoder chips dont have this extra EXPENSIVE controller chip to convert these archaic signals to the digital prerequisites some of these newer chips want... don't need... but just want and won't function just for shits and giggles.

Oh, my God ... my brain hurts. This is all so absofreakinglutely confusing to someone with no knowledge of these things.

It's good that you guys are making a forum about this kind of thing, because after I buy all the consoles I want, I plan to go find the best possible AV hookups I can get for each respective console, and then buy a device that will hold all of them and route it to my HDTV. I came up with this plan a month ago before I was finally ready to purchase the HDTV I had been saving up for; only to discover that once I hooked up things like my SNES and PSX, the sprites were blown up and pixellated-looking. I was very disappointed. I had been told from the HDTV book I had been reading months before that you could hook those old consoles up to your TV, but naturally it wouldn't make them look better, they would just be limited to standard NTSC specs. So, upon reading that, I figured that that meant they'd look like exacty the same as they used to on my old analog TV, only on an HDTV. Well, they don't. Why this is I don't understand since I own a CRT-based HDTV.

So, the point I'm trying to make, lordofduct, is what do I need to do to make my old game consoles look better on a CRT HDTV? You've mentioned the awful magnified look of those old systems on LCDs and Plasmas, but what do I do if my HDTV is a tube TV? It's supposedly 1080i. Am I (or can I?) to do the RGB converter thingy? I really, REALLY don't want to have every one of my consoles hacked. Like you said, it'd get tedious and expensive. In fact, it would be very expensive since I'm a monkey, and I'd have to send the consoles to a place like this: http://www.oldschoolgamer.ca/information.aspx?SID=14

And no one has mentioned the Wii, or the PS3. Though, I would guess that those would be component (Wii), and HDMI (PS3).

The consoles I own and plan on owning (this is what it will be like once I obtain them all):

NES
Genesis
SNES
N64
Saturn
PSX (I prefer to stick to that instead of PSOne, which sounds like it's referring to the second model)
Dreamcast
Wii
Xbox 360

[lordofduct]

Oh, my God ... my brain hurts. This is all so absofreakinglutely confusing to someone with no knowledge of these things.

It's good that you guys are making a forum about this kind of thing, because after I buy all the consoles I want, I plan to go find the best possible AV hookups I can get for each respective console, and then buy a device that will hold all of them and route it to my HDTV. I came up with this plan a month ago before I was finally ready to purchase the HDTV I had been saving up for; only to discover that once I hooked up things like my SNES and PSX, the sprites were blown up and pixellated-looking. I was very disappointed. I had been told from the HDTV book I had been reading months before that you could hook those old consoles up to your TV, but naturally it wouldn't make them look better, they would just be limited to standard NTSC specs. So, upon reading that, I figured that that meant they'd look like exacty the same as they used to on my old analog TV, only on an HDTV. Well, they don't. Why this is I don't understand since I own a CRT-based HDTV.

So, the point I'm trying to make, lordofduct, is what do I need to do to make my old game consoles look better on a CRT HDTV? You've mentioned the awful magnified look of those old systems on LCDs and Plasmas, but what do I do if my HDTV is a tube TV? It's supposedly 1080i. Am I (or can I?) to do the RGB converter thingy? I really, REALLY don't want to have every one of my consoles hacked. Like you said, it'd get tedious and expensive. In fact, it would be very expensive since I'm a monkey, and I'd have to send the consoles to a place like this: http://www.oldschoolgamer.ca/information.aspx?SID=14

And no one has mentioned the Wii, or the PS3. Though, I would guess that those would be component (Wii), and HDMI (PS3).

The consoles I own and plan on owning (this is what it will be like once I obtain them all):

NES
Genesis
SNES
N64
Saturn
PSX (I prefer to stick to that instead of PSOne, which sounds like it's referring to the second model)
Dreamcast
Wii
Xbox 360

RGB is gonna give you the sharpest image, it will be an improvement.

A lot of the ugliness comes from displaying such a low resolution. TV's usually aren't the sharpest displays, each pixel still blurs a bit despite it being a high res HDTV (especially rear projections). Yeah CRT supports a large array of resolutions, but your old consoles are very low res... the Genesis is 256X224, I mean, WOW... you can't help it.

upgrading to RGB will reduce the ugliness by making the picture more sharp, but it still won't look as good as you hoped it to... especially on 30+ inch screens.

I've discussed the pros and cons and ins and outs of this topic a real lot on the forum... so I'm gonna leave this here, and say:

"Sorry, the market does NOT inform people what older technology will ACTUALLY look like on their displays. They expect that you don't use it anymore because it is old. They ARE in it for the money and will milk the fact you are misinformed for all it is worth. Yes it is a complex and annoying technology... a technology most people don't need... a technology that I hope to God is NOT required like so many people think it is going to be in a few years."

It isn't necessary... shit, I bought my mum a 720p flat panel, she can't tell the difference between that and her TV from 1988, except for that it is thinner. This is the same women who can hardly tell the difference between antennae and cable TV.

[Raskolnikov]

RGB is gonna give you the sharpest image, it will be an improvement.

A lot of the ugliness comes from displaying such a low resolution. TV's usually aren't the sharpest displays, each pixel still blurs a bit despite it being a high res HDTV (especially rear projections). Yeah CRT supports a large array of resolutions, but your old consoles are very low res... the Genesis is 256X224, I mean, WOW... you can't help it.

upgrading to RGB will reduce the ugliness by making the picture more sharp, but it still won't look as good as you hoped it to... especially on 30+ inch screens.

Yep, and a 30" screen is exactly what I have.

Okay, so I should get a RGB to component converter then? What I don't get is how I'm going to convert an RGB signal when there's no RGB inputs on my consoles and on my TV. I was just looking at an RGB-Component convertor box on the Internet, and I don't know where I'd get the RGB source to convert. How does it work?

[lordofduct]

go here:

www.gamesx.com

he has tons of tutorials on how to get RGB out of your consoles. Most supply it right out the back (like all the Sega consoles), but things like the NES need modifications.

A lot of his stuff talks about putting that RGB signal to an old RGB monitor like from an IBM or Apple. But if you just ignore that part, you got it.

If I were you, I'd look into it a lot, estimate the total costs and then make a judgement call. It could cost you quite a bit to get RGB out of all those consoles. SCART switches, a converter, Scart cables, modification costs... the increase in sharpness may not be enough to justify the costs.

On gamesx there is an explanation of what RGB is with some side by side shots comparing it to composite, you can make a good judgement call from that.

[Raskolnikov]

go here:

www.gamesx.com

he has tons of tutorials on how to get RGB out of your consoles. Most supply it right out the back (like all the Sega consoles), but things like the NES need modifications.

A lot of his stuff talks about putting that RGB signal to an old RGB monitor like from an IBM or Apple. But if you just ignore that part, you got it.

If I were you, I'd look into it a lot, estimate the total costs and then make a judgement call. It could cost you quite a bit to get RGB out of all those consoles. SCART switches, a converter, Scart cables, modification costs... the increase in sharpness may not be enough to justify the costs.

On gamesx there is an explanation of what RGB is with some side by side shots comparing it to composite, you can make a good judgement call from that.

Okay. Thanks for your input, lordofduct. You've been a stand-up-guy.

Oh ... and forget NeoGeoMan on GamesSX.com! He's an effing dick! His tutorials are poorly made, and not easy to follow. He also won't return my e-mails, and mocks me. He can burn in Hell (where there's only RF adaptors).

[racketboy]

What do the TG16, 3DO, Neo-Geo, and Jaguar support?

[Raskolnikov]

What do the TG16, 3DO, Neo-Geo, and Jaguar support?

Apparently, most people don't care enough. I didn't see anything on those consoles on GamesSX.com

Just guessing based on the era those systems came out, I would have to say RGB or S-video.

Hey, Racketboy! I'd just go with a Wii to experience the best of TG16 and Neo-Geo unless there's some obscure, nostalgic game you have.

[racketboy]

What do the TG16, 3DO, Neo-Geo, and Jaguar support?

Apparently, most people don't care enough. I didn't see anything on those consoles on GamesSX.com

Just guessing based on the era those systems came out, I would have to say RGB or S-video.

Hey, Racketboy! I'd just go with a Wii to experience the best of TG16 and Neo-Geo unless there's some obscure, nostalgic game you have.

Well, I'm just trying to document and organize the information