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Jagosaurus
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Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie Buy

by Jagosaurus Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:28 pm

Over the past 18 months or so, I sold about 2/3 of my DVD and BD collection. I ripped those to MKV files and was fine having a DRM free digital file for them on my HDD.

Now... as I want to purchase new movies I am possibly looking to go all digital purchases. I currently rent movies from Google Play and really enjoy the experience. Fortunately, their streaming service will let you DL a movie purchase for offline play, but it will only run through their app (DRM locked so you can't run on VLC, etc). I would likely look to GP for my digital movie buys but this conversation is still relevant for iTunes, Vudu, etc (Amazon?).

In addition to the standard DRM conversation here is my hesitation... what if I buy a streaming movie today from Google Play and some time in the future a movie studio decides to pull their movies from the respective streaming movie service? Has anyone experienced this (or any "lost" access) in any form from any service?

I would hate to pay $10-$20 for a new digital movie only to not have access to it down the road due to a studio pissing match. Is the buyer protected or grandfathered in any way? I am worried that "I accept" box you check when signing up is in favor of the streaming service here and not the buyer.
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CRTGAMER
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by CRTGAMER Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:15 pm

Jagosaurus wrote:I would hate to pay $10-$20 for a new digital movie only to not have access to it down the road due to a studio pissing match. Is the buyer protected or grandfathered in any way? I am worried that "I accept" box you check when signing up is in favor of the streaming service here and not the buyer.

Convenient Mouse Click vs Disc Permanent Copy Clutter
The download stream access disappearance has already happened on numerous games, notably on Steam. No doubt this will or has happened on streaming and downloaded movies that have an online front end controlling your downloads. Already wrong when buying a DVD or Bluray movie that includes streaming which then is discovered a limited time availability!

At least the disc will always be on the shelf with all the bonus features. Well except for any Bluray Live streaming which emphasizes the disc copy the best for a personal library. Clutter is an issue, just control which video worthy of that disc permanent copy sitting in your shelf.
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Jagosaurus
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by Jagosaurus Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:09 pm

Games aren't the best example bc so many require day 1 patches or online servers to function in the first place. Games are also tied to specific console hardware or things like OS & Direct X on PC. This inherently makes many of today's games obsolete over time while that's not the case for a digital movie (other than resolutions progressing).

Music also isn't a great comparison because you get a DRM free mp3. I can DL a song from Amazon & play it on my ipod. That is not the case with movies across Vudu, Google Play, etc.

Streaming movies fall into their own camp. Uncharted territory for consumers. Digital streaming movies are just too new.

I also worry about my 1080p digital movie purchased today. What happens in 10 years when we're all watching 8K or the next big thing? Google Play will likely require an upgrade fee as I can't see them then supporting a then 20 year old resolution at that point in time. Maybe I'm wrong there. You can still purchase SD digital movies today. One thing is certain, MP3 has stayed the digital music format standard. This won't be the case with 1080p video.

I guess you're just rolling the dice a bit... Trusting 20th Century Fox and Google Play and/or Universal and Apple to all play nice. Trusting Google to have some type of reduced price upgrade program to migrate from 1080p to XYZ format years in the future. You get the picture...

Is that worth not having shelves of movies to you personally? To me, I am thinking it is. I just counted and I've sold 70% of my collection (after ripping those & ensuring I had a home network copy). Went from 175 to 56 physical copies. Having that space back is nice. I'd look at selling those remaining too, but most are kiddo movies and we have a car DVD Player for road trips.

I am hoping to hear the buyer had some type of protection. Meaning, if Warner decided to pull it's movies off Google Play, buyers who had purchased said movies still had access to them (just no net, new sales).

Either way, the digital age of movies has caused me to rent more. It's much easier than Blockbuster or even Red Box. I tag movies of interest in theaters from my phone. When they're available to rent, Google Emails me. So convenient! I'll likely also be buying less overall as I have my past favorites on disc or MKV file, but occasionally I will want to purchase new movies in the future.

Have you guys made the digital movie jump? Any hesitation? I'll make the obligatory "lower bit rate than BD" comment here :)
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CRTGAMER
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by CRTGAMER Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:23 pm

Jagosaurus wrote:I also worry about my 1080p digital movie purchased today. What happens in 10 years when we're all watching 8K or the next big thing? Google Play will likely require an upgrade fee as I can't see them then supporting a then 20 year old resolution at that point in time. Maybe I'm wrong there. You can still purchase SD digital movies today. One thing is certain, MP3 has stayed the digital music format standard. This won't be the case with 1080p video.

Have you guys made the digital movie jump? Any hesitation? I'll make the obligatory "lower bit rate than BD" comment here :)

:D Just like some are adamant on the obsolete CRT, maybe years from now owners will refuse to move up from the eventual obsolete 1080p? True, a never ending upgrade to the current medium, I admit owning Laser Disc, DVD and Bluray of the exact same movies. Not too many in all three formats, but does add fire to debate of owning vs streaming.

Special Features no longer special
One other thing of concern if important to you are all the extra footage found on the discs. Many digital copies are just the movie itself and no extras. The main "investment" dive into digital for me would be Netflix. It fills in the gap of a "movie collection", though I know the collection constantly does change. Sometimes a very good film shown on Netflix; I would like to see the behind the scenes footage. Still, a good compromise and I continue to buy video on disc that I always want to watch again as well as must haves in the disc collection archive.

Treat Streaming as rental - Be wary the front end can also do that
You should be safe as long as the market hold for the big names of Amazon and Google Play. Then again there is still that front end locked to online authentication where they control what you own. I have no doubt it could happen should a studio contract get disputed for whatever reason. For example, what if Google lost the rights to Disney creating their own streaming service, would all the Disney movies including current "downloads" be lost from Google play?

Sneek Peek - Disney Streaming Service - https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/09/disne ... ted-films/

Kindle probably one of the first instances where the media (George Orwell 1984 book) was actually removed months after the purchased download. Customers were refunded in that case after backlash. However, the laughable User License clause in current home media nullifies true ownership. Though this also applies to discs, at least the medium (so far) once purchased are no longer controlled by the studio.

Found my very old Thread, wonder how much of it still applies today? :?

History Of Copy Protection - http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=313544#p313544
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by jp1 Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:15 pm

I'm all about physical media. However, I understand the convenience factor and to each their own. I have never lost access to any of my digital copies to the best of my knowledge, and usually if one provider shuts down they make a deal with someone else to transfer your library over to them. While I wouldn't feel as comfortable as having a locally stored DRM free file, I think you're pretty safe.

There are ways to safeguard yourself in this age of digital media as well as mitigate costs a little, however, they are all taking away from the convenience factor considerably.
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by marurun Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:45 pm

When Walmart closed their online MP3 music store back in 2011, they kept the DRM servers on-line to continue to authenticate WMA files sold prior to 2007. But I have no idea of those servers are still up now. I also know that for some time now folks have not been able to re-download files from Walmart. Meaning if you didn't store your files and back them up, they're gone. And storing digital files across 20 years reliably is a lot harder than storing physical media across that same span of time.
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by jp1 Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:09 pm

marurun wrote:When Walmart closed their online MP3 music store back in 2011, they kept the DRM servers on-line to continue to authenticate WMA files sold prior to 2007. But I have no idea of those servers are still up now. I also know that for some time now folks have not been able to re-download files from Walmart. Meaning if you didn't store your files and back them up, they're gone. And storing digital files across 20 years reliably is a lot harder than storing physical media across that same span of time.


That's a very valid point. I would argue though that across 20 years I have repurchased the same movies several times as media formats expand and the ever changing landscape of "quality" has pushed new limits of what expectations I should have from my home theater experience. Depending on your willingness to hold on to an older format as something new and better comes along, you may be looking at a temporary investment either way.

With that said, I don't like the cost of digital media. It makes no sense that I should pay the exact same price for a digital copy of a movie as the physical disc itself, which often includes the digital copy for free. I prefer physical media for many reasons, but cost/value is pretty high on the list.
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by MegaJ Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:17 pm

My digital (PC) purchase of Minecraft is now unplayable- I didn't touch it for years, then suddenly felt the urge to play, found out that the login system had completely changed and that I was locked out- apparently upon changing the system, lots of logins got snatched up by people through some exploit. It's been years, so I can't locate (and probably no longer have) my email receipt to attempt to prove my purchase. Game completely unplayable to me without re-buying in some form. Lame.

I'll still buy download only stuff, but this is why I place a lot of value in owning physical media, alongside just plain liking the feeling of adding something to my collection and having something physical to touch and look at.
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Re: Have You Ever "Lost" Access to a Digital/Streaming Movie

by Tanooki Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:36 am

Hah you freaked me out with that. I just logged in and thankfully not account jacked. I haven't had it installed in a couple years and I never did a lot as I got bored with the game as it seemed every randomly generated restart kept some vital minerals/supplies out of my reach of digging in or down to locate and I've got a book here that does show the basics of what depths and spots to find general resources including redstone. I still like to randomly plug away at it, just not the boring legos like build anything mode. It did have me re-go through some questions, dates, security thing so I see how you mean they got compromised.
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