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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by AppleQueso Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:31 am

Why not try Reaper for audio work? It's got an uncrippled free trial you can play around with, and the licenses for personal use are very reasonably priced (something like $60). It's very, very powerful and its interface is pretty intuitive I find.
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by fastbilly1 Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:47 am

Cronozilla wrote:Microphones aren't that much, you can get a nice one for $80-$120. The pros don't use $4000 mics either :P You'll primarily just want to ensure there isn't wind noise, and the audio quality should be good otherwise. I can't remember the type of mic you actually want though >_>


I know quite a few professionals that use Royer for voice and Sanken for other - sound effects and etc. Some cheap mics sound cheap, even tweaked, its best to pony up the extra few dollars to get a real mic. The SM58 is only $100 and is the utility mic for the audio industry - and its almost as iconic as the Super 55. Sure you could buy a Beringher EXM-1800S pack - 3 mics for $35ish, and they might sounds good enough for you, but Ziggy wants to do this a step above beginner.

Ziggy,
Ill tell you one more nice trick that most people forget. USED IS GOOD. Buy a used or manufacturer refurbished Rebel and youll be set. Itll be a couple hundred less than a new and will work just as well. Also, if you can plan for it, you can save a good bit by using primes. A prime is simply a lens that does not zoom. So instead of being a 14-42, its a 14mm. ie, I was looking at supertelephoto lenses for my camera and a 400mm with a teleconverter (doubler) was $100, while a 100-300mm was $700
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by Ziggy587 Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:47 pm

AppleQueso wrote:Honestly an SM57 with a pop filter in front of it will be virtually identical in sound to an SM58 anyway.

You have a 57, just use that.


Yeah, for sure. But if I do get the 58, it's not like it'll be a waste. I play in bands and whatnot, I've been wanting a 58 for a while actual (I don't do vocals myself, but it's so much easier when one guy has all the gear). But yeah, when I get the chance, now that I have the Tascam unit, I'm gonna sit down with my three best mics and see what's what.

AppleQueso wrote:Why not try Reaper for audio work? It's got an uncrippled free trial you can play around with, and the licenses for personal use are very reasonably priced (something like $60). It's very, very powerful and its interface is pretty intuitive I find.


Wow, I'll definitely have to try it out. I'm perfectly fine using Audition (I've been using it for years now) but I'm always open to something new. I'll have to download it and check it out. Looks/sounds good.

KDub wrote:Yeah sorry, I skimmed the thread a little but a lot of the posts were getting long and just figured it was everyone else's recommendations haha.


Not a problem. Most of the long posts were probably mine, I tend to ramble. :lol:

KDub wrote:Anyway yes I did know the Alesis came with Cubase. I personally have tried it twice and didn't really care for it. The best way I could describe it is, awkward. The simple tasks of creating a new track and hitting record weren't as simple as they should be.

With Audacity I plug in the Alesis, open Audacity, hit record, and the track is added and the recording begins.

For voice over work, that is perfect. But I've used it for music recording and editing and it is good for that too.


That's what drew me to Cool Edit. Software that you don't have to "learn" how to use. I upgraded to Adobe Audition 3.0 and I've been using that ever since. I remember using Cubase in my high school band because my friend had it. It seemed like one of those programs that you have to learn how to use before you can do anything, in Audition I can just do things easier. Even when I first started using Cool Edit, you just knew how to do things right off the bat. But yeah, I'll have to check out Audacity, and Reaper too.

fastbilly1 wrote:Ziggy,
Ill tell you one more nice trick that most people forget. USED IS GOOD. Buy a used or manufacturer refurbished Rebel and youll be set. Itll be a couple hundred less than a new and will work just as well.


I'll buy used/refurbished, it just depends. I'll take into consideration what it is and what the difference is between the cost of new and used. Like the SM58, I have no problem buying one used. But for the DSLR camera, I might not have the option. The thing is, I know I can save a few hundred (or whatever) buying it used. But if I buy it new from NewEgg then I can get 12 months no interest to pay for it. If I buy it used, I'll have to pay the full cost up front (unless NewEgg has a refurbished model for sale).
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by fastbilly1 Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:
fastbilly1 wrote:Ziggy,
Ill tell you one more nice trick that most people forget. USED IS GOOD. Buy a used or manufacturer refurbished Rebel and youll be set. Itll be a couple hundred less than a new and will work just as well.


I'll buy used/refurbished, it just depends. I'll take into consideration what it is and what the difference is between the cost of new and used. Like the SM58, I have no problem buying one used. But for the DSLR camera, I might not have the option. The thing is, I know I can save a few hundred (or whatever) buying it used. But if I buy it new from NewEgg then I can get 12 months no interest to pay for it. If I buy it used, I'll have to pay the full cost up front (unless NewEgg has a refurbished model for sale).


I didnt think about that. Good point
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by Cronozilla Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:01 pm

Sorry, no, I only skimmed the thread. I did some typing searches for the programs I was going to mention though, and they weren't mentioned, so I decided to just post.

fastbilly1 wrote:I know quite a few professionals that use Royer for voice and Sanken for other - sound effects and etc. Some cheap mics sound cheap, even tweaked, its best to pony up the extra few dollars to get a real mic. The SM58 is only $100 and is the utility mic for the audio industry - and its almost as iconic as the Super 55. Sure you could buy a Beringher EXM-1800S pack - 3 mics for $35ish, and they might sounds good enough for you, but Ziggy wants to do this a step above beginner.


Way to go, responding to me without actually reading what I said :P

Cronozilla wrote:Microphones aren't that much, you can get a nice one for $80-$120.


I never suggested he go out and get an ultra cheap $30 mic. I just said, all the mic equipment doesn't have to be $4K. And buying several different kinds of mics likely isn't possible for the budget.

To be honest free trials of commercial software just don't cut it when it comes to this kind of thing. You really want to stay away from commercially licensed software, you end up getting stuck either because they assume you're just making some junk home movie project (some don't even offer professional quality rendering because it's a consumer piece of software), or because you have to use a bunch of proprietary formats. Or, God forbid, everything converts the files when you import them every time (lose quality FAST) It might seem "easier" in some aspects, but it iteratively destroys what you're doing.

I just strongly urge you to check out these programs, they're all open source and free to use and about as straightforward as their (very) expensive counterparts:

Lightworks (video editor with composition)
Blender (3D modeler, animator, and renderer)
Audacity (Audio editor and recorder)
Gimp (Photo and graphics editor)
InkScape (vector editor)
FFMPEG (codec and multimedia container utility)

I implore you to save yourself some massive migraines because some companies are ultra-greedy.

You may not have an option for the stop motion capture, though. Lightworks is a video editor, afterall. So you'd (potentially) use Lightworks after you've captured the frames and compiled them together into a raw video. It's not going to do that for you, obviously. Dragonframe looks like one of the better options for this. (~$300, though, ouch)

Dragonframe isn't a replacement for video editing, though. You should be aware just because some programs have some features doesn't mean it performs them better, or even satisfactorily (Video encoding for example). You should probably work with raw files when you output them, to note, so that there's no data loss. (Lossless is not the same. If you encode something to a lossless format, then encode it to a lossy format, there will be more data loss, than raw to lossy. Doesn't matter if it's video or audio.) They can be quite enormous ... but you should be prepared for that if you're making stop motion movies. (we're talking terabytes of storage) And if you're willing to throw down the $295 or whatever needed for the stop motion capture and editor software, then it shouldn't that big of a deal.

I suggest messing around with a practice project with all the suggestions in the thread and see how it goes. If you like something vs something else and the resulting quality (important!)

Also, I hope your planned project goes well! Those are always fun, even when they're hard work (stop motion is really hard work)
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by fastbilly1 Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:13 am

Cronozilla wrote:Sorry, no, I only skimmed the thread. I did some typing searches for the programs I was going to mention though, and they weren't mentioned, so I decided to just post.

fastbilly1 wrote:I know quite a few professionals that use Royer for voice and Sanken for other - sound effects and etc. Some cheap mics sound cheap, even tweaked, its best to pony up the extra few dollars to get a real mic. The SM58 is only $100 and is the utility mic for the audio industry - and its almost as iconic as the Super 55. Sure you could buy a Beringher EXM-1800S pack - 3 mics for $35ish, and they might sounds good enough for you, but Ziggy wants to do this a step above beginner.


Way to go, responding to me without actually reading what I said :P


Same to you buddy - You said that even the professionals dont use 4k mics. Atleast we both didnt listen to the right parts.

But to continue to sound like an asshole: Next you are going to tell me a pvc boompole is just as good as a ktek. A PVC one will work for a while, but after a couple shoots, its worth it to spend the $200 to get an 8ft ktek. I use to be the same way, you can find posts on here about how I use to make alot of diy production gear - including changing light bulb changers to boompoles for $25. But after I went on a small shoot and both of my $25 boompoles broke, well it was time to step up and Ive put my ktek through hell and it still works as well as the day I bought it.

In the film industry there are some things you can cheap out on. Ie, if you are outside in bright day light you can use a modern vivitek lens instead of a nikon or cooke and it will look comparable. Last year I took my Gh1, one of my fathers Gh2, an Alexa, a friends XF300, and a flip hd, and had them all shooting at the same time outside and inside. In daylight, everything looked right about the same. The flip was alittle blown out, but the other four looked exactly the same. Running on a scope, the Alexa won out by a good bit, but to the eye they were all just about the same. This showed us that the flip camera was good enough that you could cheat with one if you had to (so I recently bought three). Granted this was proven in the film Secretariat where Dean Semler used Olympus Pens on poles for the close up shots of the horses racing, and mixed it in with shots from the Genesis and youd be hard press to tell the difference. I actually had a chance to talk to him a couple weeks ago and asked him about it and told him how I use a hacked GH1 for the same reasons. He said that, if he can wing it, will be shooting with Pens outside and the AF100 insides (with a hawk ultra lowlight lens - but he might have said that because the Hawk Lenses guys were next to us). But then again, there are somethings you really cant cheap out on - mics being the important one in my eyes/ears.

You are right that Ziggy will need a NLE aswell as Dragonframe, that was something I was unaware of. In the past it had a fairly advanced one built in. It is still an amazing value for what it is and at $300 it is a nobrainer to buy - especially if he has a compatible camera.

Actually Ziggy, if money is that tight, I have a friend who is an excellent editor but is always looking for more experience. Ill talk to him about it tonight if you want. Just an option, I am going to download a few of the programs that Chronozilla suggested later - even though I have the CS5 production suite. Sometimes these programs can give you a combination of effects to give you footage unlike anything you have ever seen before:
http://vimeo.com/30245117
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by Cronozilla Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:34 pm

Cronozilla wrote:Microphones aren't that much, you can get a nice one for $80-$120. The pros don't use $4000 mics either :P [<~ that's a razz if you didn't notice]


fastbilly1 wrote:The SM58 is only $100 and is the utility mic for the audio industry - and its almost as iconic as the Super 55. Sure you could buy a Beringher EXM-1800S pack - 3 mics for $35ish, and they might sounds good enough for you [I never said to do this], but Ziggy wants to do this a step above beginner.


Cronozilla wrote:Way to go, responding to me without actually reading what I said


fastbilly1 wrote:Same to you buddy - You said that even the professionals dont use 4k mics. Atleast we both didnt listen to the right parts. [What's this "we" shit?]


And the original, '4k' comment was never in response to you, so this doesn't make sense either.

My professionals don't use $4000 mics either was a nonchalant comment. I don't care if they do or don't, if you want to rage a internet-factoid-crusade on me because of it, be my guest. I was just saying he doesn't need to spend that much and that a microphone, something in the $80 to $120 price rage would likely service all his needs for his project. Which I would like to point out you corrected me on and said, 'No he doesn't! He can get one for $100!'...

Come now. This is ridiculous.

Ziggy, I'm sorry this is happening in your thread. Really. But this is nonsense.
I already gave my suggestions on the software side, I don't really have much more to add outside of that, so I hope that helps you out and good luck with your project.
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by fastbilly1 Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:16 pm

Cronozilla wrote:Way to go, responding to me without actually reading what I said

fastbilly1 wrote:Same to you buddy - You said that even the professionals dont use 4k mics. Atleast we both didnt listen to the right parts. [What's this "we" shit?]


It was sarcasm. Thats why I said We and then stated to continue to be an asshole.
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by Ziggy587 Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:57 pm

I'm having a fucking blast with this new Tascam unit! I made another song yesterday just to mess around with it some more, I uploaded it if any one wants to give it a listen...

Song # 2: http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ ... thAche.mp4

Again, it's just some free sample drum MIDI tracks that I strung together. Then the guitar and bass is just direct into the Tascam. This one was 100% improvised, and most of the tracks were first takes, so sue me if it isn't perfect. :D

That part at 22 seconds would be perfect for some sax work. Too bad I don't own a sax though, I've been wanting one for years.

Cronozilla wrote:Way to go, responding to me without actually reading what I said

fastbilly1 wrote:Same to you buddy - You said that even the professionals dont use 4k mics. Atleast we both didnt listen to the right parts.


Cronozilla, you can't really blame Fastbilly for not reading your post entirely when you're guilty of the same thing. You posted in this thread without reading it entirely, I believe that's what Fast meant by "we". No need for any negative reactions.

Cronozilla wrote:I just strongly urge you to check out these programs, they're all open source and free to use and about as straightforward as their (very) expensive counterparts:


I'm always interested in free software! But to be honest, I have no real interest in Audacity, Gimp or Inkscape. You know how it is, once you get comfortable with a program. I've been using Adobe Audition 3.0 for years now. To my knowledge, Audacity doesn't have anything over Audition. In fact, it might be less capable. I downloaded Audacity today to try it out, purely out of curiosity. I see no reason to use it over Audition, especially since I'm already comfortable with it. I'm just so use to the menus and terminology. Same goes for GIMP. I've been using Photoshop for years. I can't use GIMP because I can't find anything in it! :lol:

Cronozilla wrote:Dragonframe isn't a replacement for video editing, though.


Hmm, that's a good point. I'll definitely have to check out Lightworks, thanks for pointing it out!

Cronozilla wrote:They can be quite enormous ... but you should be prepared for that if you're making stop motion movies. (we're talking terabytes of storage)


Well I'm not doing stop motion movies, so we're not really talking terabytes here. We'll be doing clips, most of which will be pretty short. The longest skit idea (as of now) that we have is still well under 10 minutes, maybe even 5 minutes or less. The only space concern I have is for archiving, and I'm hoping DL DVDs will be easy enough for that.

Cronozilla wrote:I suggest messing around with a practice project with all the suggestions in the thread and see how it goes. If you like something vs something else and the resulting quality (important!)


That's the idea. We've done multiple test clips already, but not using any real video editing software, or even a good camera. What I plan to do is get the DSLR camera first, then download the trial version of Dragonframe. But from what I've read, it looks like Dragonframe will be it. Outside of that, I'm hoping Lightworks will be sufficient since it's free!

fastbilly1 wrote:Actually Ziggy, if money is that tight, I have a friend who is an excellent editor but is always looking for more experience. Ill talk to him about it tonight if you want.


Thanks, Fast. I'm not too sure though. It's just that if my brother and I do every aspect ourselves, we'll feel good about it. You know what I mean? To be able to say, "I did that." I appreciate it though.
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Re: video editing software, digital cams, and microphones, ?

by Cronozilla Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:47 am

If you already have the software then it isn't really going to matter. However, I would argue GIMP is actually a worthy choice over Photoshop. The tools are just more powerful and easier to use in most respects (even if part of the main interface isn't).

There are, however, various packages people have made to make the transition easier for PS users, and the software itself is pretty customizable. But, it's worth checking out just for the enhanced tools. The pen, select, crop, distort tools are significantly better. But there's also abilities and features that just don't exist in Photoshop at all. (proper animation, proper image compression, and proper pallet selection for web, as well as some more useful canvas abilities)

Seriously, the Select tools are so substantially better in GIMP it's not even funny. I'm not sure if CS5 (or whatever) has copied it yet, though :P

Anyway, it's not something to be ignored just because the different interface is jarring at first. I used to hate it, but after learning the new tool names (which most are the same) it's not that big of a deal. There's like three quirks you have to get over and they're not enormous ones.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't get what you need done with Lightworks ... it is a professional quality non-linear video editing suite. I will warn you, it's not as intuitive as most video editors at first, because it's non-linear. It just takes a little practice to get the workflow down.
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