Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

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AppleQueso

Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by AppleQueso »

Curlypaul wrote:You are right he never fell into name calling or anything and normally presented his unreasonable arguments in a reasonable way, but he was stubborn and refused to see anybody else's point of view - particularly on the marriage thing, which has come up a couple of times over the time he has been here..


He did plenty of name-calling. He just tried to word it in such a way that he figured most of us would be too stupid to realize he was trying to insult us. Things like saying that anyone who gets married without a prenup is a fool or gold-digger in a thread where several members were talking about the fact that they were getting married.
Curlypaul
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by Curlypaul »

AppleQueso wrote:
Curlypaul wrote:You are right he never fell into name calling or anything and normally presented his unreasonable arguments in a reasonable way, but he was stubborn and refused to see anybody else's point of view - particularly on the marriage thing, which has come up a couple of times over the time he has been here..


He did plenty of name-calling. He just tried to word it in such a way that he figured most of us would be too stupid to realize he was trying to insult us. Things like saying that anyone who gets married without a prenup is a fool or gold-digger in a thread where several members were talking about the fact that they were getting married.


Actually you are correct - I retract that statement I made
AppleQueso

Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by AppleQueso »

Well it looks like my post fell into some kinda void!

You can see if you select "post reply" and scroll down, but it doesn't show up normally. How strange...

Curlypaul quoted it in the post above this one though so I guess it all works out.
Ivo
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by Ivo »

Well the rules are the rules and he shouldn't keep breaking them, but I also think the forum was better with him for one simple reason: people aren't forced to read his posts and as far as I know you can block a user. So people bothered by him should have blocked him while letting others (like many of the posters in this thread) see his point of view. That is assuming I understand how the blocking works in this forum (I don't have anyone blocked) - it seems to be called "Foes" in my user control panel.

Instead what I think happened was that those who didn't like his posts took it personally and instead of blocking him themselves, eventually goaded him to get himself banned. Whether some users egged him on on purpose expecting him to eventually banned or it just happened that way I don't know, it is still Inazuma's fault though for going over the line more than once.

So I do agree that he did go over the line and although he didn't seem to make it personal he did insult people in my opinion, which he shouldn't do. As someone with often extreme opinions (which I do think had merit most of the time) that I feel I and many others respected, he really should respect more other people's opinions as well.

As for Moz, he wasn't banned and I disagree with curly: Moz I really think did it on purpose whereas Inazuma I honestly think he really believed he was helping everyone out. Anyway, for Moz as well those that didn't like him could have blocked him.

Ivo.
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by Curlypaul »

Well no Moz wasn't banned, he left by choice. I agree that he acted up on purpose, Moz hinted several times that he saw 'Moz' as an internet persona and did not represent the way he acted in real life. Personally I find this more acceptable.

I often avoided posts that both of these people left, especially when the subject was something I knew I was going to get wound up over, but how are new users supposed to know which idiots to avoid until they have fallen foul of the traps themselves? Anyway rules is rules and thats that.

I admit that I havn't read the rules here for some time - is banned always permanent or do we have a temp ban to let people cool off? Do people think that temp bans are a good idea? it seems to work OK at sega-16
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by Ivo »

Curlypaul wrote:Well no Moz wasn't banned, he left by choice. I agree that he acted up on purpose, Moz hinted several times that he saw 'Moz' as an internet persona and did not represent the way he acted in real life. Personally I find this more acceptable.

I often avoided posts that both of these people left, especially when the subject was something I knew I was going to get wound up over, but how are new users supposed to know which idiots to avoid until they have fallen foul of the traps themselves? Anyway rules is rules and thats that.

I admit that I havn't read the rules here for some time - is banned always permanent or do we have a temp ban to let people cool off? Do people think that temp bans are a good idea? it seems to work OK at sega-16


Don't know about rules exactly and it is not my forum, but I would agree with temp bans.

Also I don't think there is an issue for new users - they should learn who to block quickly enough. It isn't like there is a big learning curve and other forums are like that.
My philosophy is that people should be encouraged to use the features of the forum instead of wanting person X to be banned.

Why should a new user (or any existing user) be valued more than an existing user X when we could have both of them co-existing without interference, if the new user can simply block user X instead? Seems like win-win to me...

Ivo.
AppleQueso

Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by AppleQueso »

Blocking members doesn't do a lot of good when entire threads are repeatedly derailed because of them.
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by Erik_Twice »

AppleQueso wrote:Blocking members doesn't do a lot of good when entire threads are repeatedly derailed because of them.

Exactly.

Also people shouldn't need to resort to blocking a member because he is rude.
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dsheinem
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by dsheinem »

Hobie-wan wrote:He'd had multiple warnings over the past few years and kept breaking the rules. He had multiple chances and he blew it.



I guess it is fair to let you know that many of the threads he posted in resulted in members posting notifications to the mods, that over the years pretty much every individual mod received multiple complaints via PM about his posting behavior (some of which asked for a ban), and that he never really seemed to understand that much of what he did (intentionally or not) kept pissing people off. We thought that, ultimately, his posts were doing more to drive away some of our members (including both new and long-established ones) than they were to make this a place where people wanted to post.

As was mentioned in the other thread, we didn't make the decision lightly and on several previous occasions gave him a "stay of execution" so to speak, because he did indeed bring more to the forum than an argumentative streak, he did sometimes introduce interesting discussion points into a thread ("stubborn truths," as he often put it), and he did cool down for periods of time after being issued warnings.

So yeah, while the mods acted in unity, there are certainly a few of us who have a tinge of sadness about seeing him go...

And to answer a few other questions:

-As far as I know there's no precedent for a "cooling off" ban. It was our decision to permaban him.

-The rules for the site are stickied at the top of every forum/sub-forum, and those are what we base our modding decisions on. We also tend to enforce a general "three warnings before a ban" policy, but that number can be more or less depending on the severity of certain violations and/or someone's overall posting history.

-I would be surprised if we banned more than three people last year (other than spammers), and I would also be surprised if we have banned many more than 2-4 a year in the time I've been part of the moderating team. I think we've indicated many times that we're more in favor of community censuring than "institutional" censoring when it comes to controversial/borderline posts, and the general maturity of this community allows us to pretty much be hands off when it comes to dealing with contentious issues.

Anyway, I don't know how much more I can say about the banning of Inazuma without getting into details about specific problematic posts, specific previous warnings, etc. - and that stuff should remain private, I believe.
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Luke
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Re: Wait. What? Inazuma got banned?

Post by Luke »

I had plenty of conversations with Inazuma on the board and in PM's, hell, I even gave him the nick name Izzy. If I know the guy half as well as I think I do (I doubt anyone can really know the guy 100%)I'm pretty sure he would say something close to "Hey, it's not my site and censorship is bullshit, but it's in their right as owners/mods of the site to block what they want".

There is a RB Suggestion thread for those who want temp bans, but let's not start an entire thread about who got banned and why as it serves no purpose. The mods made a decision, and that's their business. This isn't my forum either, but I think this thread would serve better as a place to say that you miss Inazuma's posts, or to post some his funniest posts.
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