World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[AmishSamurai]

Most band-level societies are pretty close to what we would call a "true" democracy, though that's because it's usually 50-75 people. A lot easier to manage.

And yeah, this thread is getting a bit vicious. So my two cents before I have to duck for cover- Go Egypt, you done good.

*hides*

[vash23n]

To the best of my knowledge, only one TRULY democratic nation has ever existed...and that was a couple thousand years ago.

Greece wasn't democratic in any sense that we would understand that word today. Due to the requirements to be a citizen and thus vote, it was almost more like an oligarchy or plutocracy, really.

Greece is commonly referred to as an Oligarchy, at least when I was studying history, but most of my specialty involved 1750-present.

As for all of the aggression in this thread... doesn't this happen everytime politics or religion are discussed? There are a couple of people I am surprised haven't showed up yet. Usually when they do, the thread gets locked a few posts later.

I really like what someone said about Democracy working best for people of a European background. Cultures are so different in other countries that you can't expect what works for the US and Europe to work for them. It is not just the case of an evil tyrant preventing democracy from being introduced, the people are oftentimes just as unwilling to accept changes that go against the way they have lived for centuries. The idea that these people are just waiting for democracy with open arms is absurd. In N. Korea and everywhere we seem to be focusing on there are protests, of course, and we hear a lot about those who stand against the current government. There are many more who support the government. We may not understand or agree with them (I don't in many cases), but it doesn't change things. To say that these actions are out of fear and hopelessness that they have not been saved by democracy yet is naive. It is also offensive to say that these people just don't know what is good for them and, once we force them to switch, they will realize how much better life is. Iraq still seems to be having a ton of issues last time I checked.

Oh and the US is not a true democracy, it is representative, more like a republic - someone said representative democracy and I would agree with that.

[Hatta]

Popo, I have no desire to get into it with you over capital punishment. Let's just say that I find it absolutely unsurprising that you are in favor of gratuitous displays of brutality. There's no point in arguing it, since there's no common ground here. You believe in order at all costs, I believe in justice and freedom.

[Flake]

Popo, I have no desire to get into it with you over capital punishment. Let's just say that I find it absolutely unsurprising that you are in favor of gratuitous displays of brutality. There's no point in arguing it, since there's no common ground here. You believe in order at all costs, I believe in justice and freedom.

Justice and Freedom only come with order. You have no more rights than the person with a gun to your head says you have. Personally, I like making sure that the person with a gun to my head is the best person they can be.

[Limewater]

Popo, I have no desire to get into it with you over capital punishment. Let's just say that I find it absolutely unsurprising that you are in favor of gratuitous displays of brutality.

For what it's worth, I'm not in favor of capital punishment, but if they're going to do it I do think they should do it publicly. You'll have to tell me what kind of horrible person that makes me.

[saturnfan]

I have never had a problem with capital punishment in its most rudimentary of moral circumstances. In plain English, I see nothing morally wrong with killing a dangerous criminal.

However

I am against the death penalty because it is expensive and drains public funds with the endless appeal processes, and it helps create a culture of hopelessness amongst our felon population when prison is supposed to be reforming lives, not further destroying them.

[ZeroAX]

Greece wasn't democratic in any sense that we would understand that word today. Due to the requirements to be a citizen and thus vote, it was almost more like an oligarchy or plutocracy, really.

The irony is that Greece was not a country, it was a race

Some were kindgoms (Macedonia), some were oligarchies (Sparta) which is close to modern communism (in the way the leaders are voted, not economically or anything else), some were Aristocracies (basically the same as an oligarchy but the people put in power were always from the aristocratic families) and some were democracies (mostly Athens and its allies).

In Athens anyone who was born Athenian had the right to vote. The problem was that

A) Women didn't have the right to vote (that will take humanity some time to allow)

B) Cause it was a city that gathered people from all over the then known world, that meant that a respectable part of its population didn't get the right to vote (and to this day, many countries don't give emigrants the right to vote)


I honestly can't remember what other requirements there were, but I studied ancient Greek history a long time ago, so I might be forgetting something. Also things did change a lot over time. Dictators (or as they were called, tyrants) took over the city for some time, they were murdered (back when simply murdering the dictator was enough to remove the regime (well some times)) democracy came back again (with changes to stop tyrants), so on so on....

[Droid party]

Guys guys shut up, I have much bigger news for the people of Bahrain. http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11768.html

On a serious note, Thank God we have Kingmohd84 here to give us an opinion from someone who is actually living through this. Whether you think he is right or you think he is being brainwashed by his government is up to you. But I personally relish having an insiders opinion whatever it may be.

[vash23n]

I am against the death penalty because it is expensive and drains public funds with the endless appeal processes, and it helps create a culture of hopelessness amongst our felon population when prison is supposed to be reforming lives, not further destroying them.

My wife and I feel you should be able to apply for a license to kill. You have to provide evidence to a board that will approve and issue the license for one person only. After counseling that makes sure you are able to handle the task at hand, you are then given a set amount of time and paid leave from work for that period (1 week, 2 weeks, etc.). You can use whatever plan you want or just wing it and the person you are after has the right to defend himself (no outside parties are allowed to help or they will be fined). If you do not achieve your goal during the period of time allotted, tough! You had your chance. If you do than you are not allowed to be punished, but you must agree to counseling to make sure you properly cope with your actions. Then, everyone moves on with their lives.

Eh, this system would probably be corrupted eventually... people would wrongfully be approved as targets like the government sending a mercenary after a political prisoner or something, blah blah blah.

[Pulsar_t]

The fate that hopefully awaits the Qaddafis.