The Wrestling Thread

[Reprise]

Haha we're going into dangerous territory where I'd end up writing paragraphs on how I would have booked the Invasion. I would have delayed it slightly, but not by much. I would have just had a slightly slower build and I would have bought out some of the bigger contracts. If you read on some of the stuff, whilst some of the contracts were difficult, a lot were feasible but WWE just didn't want to pay. There was even some bizarre decisions, like did you know Rey Mysterio was signed during the Invasion, but they didn't want him involved, so he got paid to just sit at home? At least I'm sure Rey said that's what happened when he was on Jericho's podcast one time.

Regarding Booker, I agree. I was always a big fan of Booker T's stuff, particularly back in the tail end of WCW when he was main eventing. I was pretty annoyed it took so long for him to get the push in WWE though. His feud with the Rock was great, but could have been awesome. He's a great worker and looked like a star, but WWE kinda treated him a bit shitty for the first few years. He should have got a huge win at WMIX, but alas, Triple H just had to get yet another win

And yeah, Buff claims he was fired for being off sick or injured I think. Didn't he claim JR said his mum called in sick on his behalf or something? Which he denied. Although allegedly he got into an argument with Gregory Helms I think. I forget. I was actually kinda gutted back in 2001 when I was watching WWE and he disappeared after just one match. I always like the guy, I just never really saw him as a main eventer for the title. That was my only problem with that match I mentioned.

Scott Steiner's transformation really was bizarre. He was great as part of the Steiner brothers, but yeah, he took one too many steroids me thinks, regardless of what he claims... He went pretty crazy on the mic, with some terrible and unintentionally hilarious mic skills. It was pretty funny when he did a few shoots too where he blasted WCW. His in-ring work in late WCW was incredible compared to his WWE run though. Oh boy

I'm a huuuuuge Mankind fan. He was my absolute favourite wrestler (well him and all of Mick's personas) back in the 90s and early 00s. Remind me, what was he doing in 1997?

Kurt Angle is one of my favourites and he is a big reason why WWE was so awesome in 2000 and 2001. He made the Invasion angle so much better and was so over as a face in that period (although he was always an amazing heel of course).

Yeah 1998 WCW was when it all went down hill imo. You're right, that at the end of 1998 was when Nash became booker.

Regarding Bret Hart, he said he hated WCW. Like not just hated the company, but HATED it. I mean, I can see why he was bitter, he was booked like shit, had hardly any outstanding matches and his career was ended in that company. It wouldn't surprise me if Hart did go on autopilot a bit, because he was being put in some awful angles. And he was never treated with the respect he deserved. He should have been main eventing, not treated like an upper mid carder, which I think he was at times.

Lance Storm is legitimately awesome. He just doesn't have any charisma or mic skills at all He was alright as a heel though. I just love watching the man wrestle though. His skills were brilliant.

Finaaaally, yeah The Big Show / The Giant / Paul White sucks.

[Xeogred]

I'm coming to peace with Triple H. I have a long weird history about him, grew up with some friends that liked him the most. But I never did, (enjoyed DX though). I never denied his crazy heel The Game run was nuts though, but at that time I recall liking Jericho so much more. I've always compared their runs there for some reason, which is amusing since at first I think they butted heads real hard backstage.

So in my rewatch I was almost hating Triple H even more, with his Hunter Hearst Helmsley gimmick in 1996... it was just god awful. I think Shawn Michaels saved and made him. Without Shawn as a friend, who knows what the hell Triple H would have become. But after the heel DX Shawn and Triple H thing, and then face DX... I have to admit Triple H is finally growing on me. At this point in 1999, I would even say he's got a lot more technical skills and moves than both Austin and Rock here. Kind of a shame he was injured for a big chunk of 1998 though, which was a window for Rock to hit the top.

So yeah... weird thoughts on Triple H, but I think I'm finally becoming a fan. That said my friend said he hogged the world belt so much as a heel in the mid 2000's that he was getting real intense heat, kind of like you suggested with him beating Booker from the sounds of it haha...

I respect the man a lot though and what he does today sounds awesome with NXT and the business side of things. Though, it sounds like they still play up the evil corporate thing and that needs to die. lol

Well you put me on the spotlight, I don't have any specific notes on Mankind in 1997 haha. I just know, from his debut in 1996 up to 1999, he's always been amazing. I think he was still playing up his darker side in 1997 and had some feuding with Undertaker off and on, before the build up to the crazy Hell in the Cell 1998 match. Oh, but he did have some Cactus Jack and Dude Love stuff going in 1997 I think it was, and even did the Royal Rumble as all three characters. I'm a big fan of comedic Mankind and socko as well. He's got a weird look and could only do so much... but the guy was just oozing with character and charm, nothing but love for Mick.

I mostly blame WCW with how they handled Bret, but I think I can blame him a bit too. It sounded like he had a poor attitude going into it from the start, would show up before his matches merely 5 minutes before they started, etc. Probably made no effort to make some connections with the other guys and such. As always don't get me wrong, Bret Hart is one of my top favorites... but I think he truly is a little full of himself sometimes. I could imagine he went into WCW on a high horse right away. BUT, that's also exactly what WCW should have done, they just pulled over one of the WWF's top stars and could have done so much more. Too many backstage politics and as much as I like Hogan as well, I can imagine the stories about him fearing Bret and holding him down are probably true.

It's a shame... in ways it's almost like it would have been better if he disappeared like Shawn did during this era. But instead... the tail end of Bret's career is pretty damn bad and... years worth of crap material. Then the injuries and health things piled up and he was never able to redeem himself unlike Shawn.

The biggest mistake I think is how bad Macho was handled in the Wolfpac. They were slightly suggesting at a feud with him and Bret Hart and man, that probably could have been amazing. And if it were as long as Macho and DDP's feud, maybe could have been the peak of both their careers in WCW. But instead they threw Macho against Piper randomly again, then DDP randomly, and it was a mess until Macho disappeared because of his ACL tear... and then I couldn't give two shits about the Wolfpac.

Almost into December 1998... I'm still laughing at how the Warrior thing just fizzles out instantly overnight basically.

[TSTR]

I saw Buff at this show I went to a few weeks ago. He had a slow, plodding match with Billy Gunn that was billed as "DX vs. nWo." They even fucked the finish up. Buff had obvious hair plugs. Kinda sad.

Scott Steiner is one of the most entertaining individuals to ever hold a microphone. I can listen to Big Poppa Pump promos all day.

[Xeogred]

FREAK ZONE

Yeah, so much to discuss I forgot to add on Scott Steiner... it sucks that his mobility goes to crap after he goes SSJ, but he is unintentionally amazing. I just don't know if I can stomach much of 2001 with him and Jeff Jarrett as the top guys haha, but maybe I'll get a lot of laughs from Scott. I remember his Pharaoh headdress crap later on, lmao.

Ric Steiner's greatest enemy? Yeah...

[prfsnl_gmr]

Finaaaally, yeah The Big Show / The Giant / Paul White sucks.

He's one you have to see in person, preferably up close. I am a pretty big guy, but that man is a spectacle.

[Reprise]

Haha gotta love Big Poppa Pump.

I'm much the same with Triple H, but I did love him as a kid. I thought he was the greatest heel of all time when I was watching wrestling in the early 2000. His feuds with Mick Foley and The Rock then were awesome. I also loved him as a face in 98 and very early 99. DX and his friendship with Shawn definitely made his career. But yeah, his hogging of the belt in the mid 2000s just became so meh. Put it like this, you mentioned Goldberg's mediocre run in WWE, well that was Triple H's fault. Well, at least partly. Goldberg built up a decent streak in WWE, they built him up okay-ish, everything was building up to him winning the title, his first WWE heavyweight championship, at SummerSlam 2003, only for Triple H come along and go "nope" before pinning Goldberg for 1,2,3. Speaking of 2003, Booker T was finally getting his push. Everything was building up to him winning the title at the grandest stage of them all, but nope, Triple H had to get the 1,2,3. In fact, not just the 1,2,3, but one that was done a full 25 odd seconds after hitting the pedigree. Yup, Triple H had to be a jackass and purposely wait a long ass time before going for the pin just to make Booker look weak.

[stickem]

You can stop watching wrestling for a while, but if you were ever a fan of it at any point, it never fully leaves you.

Hell, I'm more excited about wrestling now than I have been in years. There's just so much to choose from these days. And even if any of the modern stuff doesn't do it for you, there are so many avenues to access tons of wrestling history at the touch of a button.

It's a great time to be a wrestling fan.

I'll disagree with you in my case. As a wccw/NWA fan of the early 80's, as soon as I saw UFC 1 and got into Pride FC, I was done with wrasslin. I still enjoy looking back at the good old days, before the steroid/bodybuilding era, but UFC, bellator, Rizin FC for me.

Big poppa pump played a pretty good heal, probably cause that persona was him in real life. And asshole and ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

[Xeogred]

Yeah I've heard horror stories about the Steiners backstage and off camera and how badly Scott would treat fans and such, lol. Not surprising.

Haha gotta love Big Poppa Pump.

I'm much the same with Triple H, but I did love him as a kid. I thought he was the greatest heel of all time when I was watching wrestling in the early 2000. His feuds with Mick Foley and The Rock then were awesome. I also loved him as a face in 98 and very early 99. DX and his friendship with Shawn definitely made his career. But yeah, his hogging of the belt in the mid 2000s just became so meh. Put it like this, you mentioned Goldberg's mediocre run in WWE, well that was Triple H's fault. Well, at least partly. Goldberg built up a decent streak in WWE, they built him up okay-ish, everything was building up to him winning the title, his first WWE heavyweight championship, at SummerSlam 2003, only for Triple H come along and go "nope" before pinning Goldberg for 1,2,3. Speaking of 2003, Booker T was finally getting his push. Everything was building up to him winning the title at the grandest stage of them all, but nope, Triple H had to get the 1,2,3. In fact, not just the 1,2,3, but one that was done a full 25 odd seconds after hitting the pedigree. Yup, Triple H had to be a jackass and purposely wait a long ass time before going for the pin just to make Booker look weak.

Bret gives Triple H a 4/10! haha

So yeah while I say I'm starting to really dig him... I don't think I'll walk away ever seeing him as a top level guy. He's still half of what Shawn was, lol. But it seems apparent he or the company maybe thought otherwise at some points. A better wrestler in ways than later Austin and Rock, but he was never on that kind of level. At no point could I see Triple H being "the guy" for the company. I think it's funny knowing him and Rock don't seem to be very friendly, since they were kind of direct competition. And some of the promos I see from the early 2000's with the two... man Rock makes him look like a bitch, lmao. Triple H was jealous I bet.

[Jagosaurus]

I just don't have the time to keep up with 15+ hours of new wrestling a week although I want to... maybe. Do you guys watch it all every week?

Man, this thread is headed my direction though.

My Dad & I were huge WCW fans during this time of discussion. I also liked ECW and always pulled for Raven when he entered WCW. I'm still confused how I even saw some ECW as this was well before their TNN deal. One of the local Houston stations must've played it. I remember watching late at night. Maybe I caught it at my great uncle's who I'll mention later. He was a very early satellite TV adopter. I digress...

I didn't dislike WWF, but my dad liked WCW better and part of the fun was watching with him (much to my mother's dismay). Looking back today, I realize he identified better with the more southern style roots he had watched with his grandpa as a kid (NWA likely?). One of my buddies took me to a WCW Thunder taping in Beaumont. I believe it was actually shot on a Sunday night and aired on Thursday. Man, that was fun even though the card was lackluster & my seats were almost in the back row!!!

My great uncle (satellite TV uncle ) was a big WWF fan, as were most kids on the playground. I would watch the Saturday morning recap show that WWF ran as well to stay in the know. Couldn't be left out of the playground WCW vs WWF arguments ! Due to this, I definitely knew who Bret Hart was & rooted for him when I did catch WWF. I was shocked to see him enter the WCW. Even as a kid I was baffled why he wasn't an immediate super star. That move was definitely mishandled. How they got Nash & Hall over so well but flopped on Hart is puzzling. Today I know there was a non compete in his WWF contract so they had to use him as a guest ref and for promos only. IMO, they should have just shelved him and had a huge surprise entrance versus slowly introducing him until the Flair match. I agree, there had to be backstage politics involved.

To touch on some other line items mentioned: I've never liked Triple H. I can't explain it, but I'm not drawn to his character at all. Never was. Booker T was always a favorite of mine, and I love how he's involved in the Houston indie development scene.

I feel like wrestling is the best it's been in years with the Hardy Boyz (one of my personal favorites) coming back, the WWE network/NXT, and ROH & Lucha rocking it. How is WCPW? Seems they only do an occasional show? I hate to see TNA going downhill. Everyone is jumping ship & they've moved from Spike to Destination America to Pop now :/. I really thought they were going to be a viable competitor to WWE over time. Hopefully ROH will get a national TV deal. You'd think the Sinclairs could swing that. Maybe it benefits them financially to keep it on their local channels? Speaking of owners, what do you guys think of Corgan buying NWA? Can that lead to anything positive?

I'm on the fence between enjoying wrestling history through my nostalgia glasses or just jumping back in. Dig back about 10 pages & you'll see I had this same debate a couple years ago also . Either way, really enjoyed reading this thread for the past few pages.

Do you guys go watch any local promotions on TV or in person? I caught a local Houston promo on TV awhile back & I actually had a lot of fun watching it.

note: rambling, long post via mobile

[Jagosaurus]

Thinking of recording Impact tonight...