You damn kids, Listen to your superiors!

[Limewater]

Most college professors could care less. Most aren't reviewed, they can get tenure (aka they can't get fired) and over 50%, regardless of college, make 6 figures.

Heh. Luke, you went to business school, right? I think the 50% thing might be true in business school, but not most other fields. That's not to say that educators of any type don't get paid enough, because I think they do. Yes, even adjuncts, though I do think that education model is exploitative and not beneficial for students.

But that's beside the point. While I don't quite share Luke's high esteem for high school teachers, do think he's right on pretty much right in his analysis of the situation and appropriate behavior. I've had a couple of nightmare teachers, including one who lied about me and said that I called a girl a hooker so that I had to get a paddling. Later gave a friend and me after-school detention when a girl hit me during class and he asked me if I was alright. Of course, the girl was not punished or reprimanded at all.

However, you will one day have to learn to suck it up and at least act like you respect those who have authority over you. If you don't, you'll have a hard time progressing past temp work and minimum wage.

And no, despite how fun it is to think, you will most likely never be "above" your teachers or principal. You might make more money than them, but that's about it.

[jp1]

There is no balance in the world anymore.

Either you are a spoiled teen with a superiority complex and all teachers are the pinnacle of society or teachers are a self entitled abusive group of power mongers. This seems to be the consensus.

I think it could be a little more complicated than that. I understand where you are coming from about wanting some respect, the problem is that you will likely never have what you want. Nearly everyone has some "superior" dismissive asshole in their life and that is just the way the world works. I believe most teachers are good people that got in the profession for noble reasons and do a lot of good for the world. I also believe some teachers are just assholes like any other group of people. Either way you have to learn to pick your battles or you have got a really tough road ahead of you.

What I'm saying is metaphorically speaking that piece of trash will always be waiting for you to pick it up regardless of who put it there. The older you get the more you will realize that the idea of being "right" and the reality of living a peaceful and productive life don't exactly go hand in hand. When you grab the trash without even having been asked that is when you can call yourself an adult.

[Niode]

What you have to bear in mind is, it was touched upon earlier in the thread, you are essentially at the bottom of the food chain. You're told what to do by your superiors (be it parents, teachers - whatever). This paradigm never changes throughout your entire life. The difference is the older you get the higher (generally) up the ladder you get. So when your superior tells you to do something (your boss, the government) you simple throw it down the ladder to your inferiors. It's called delegation.

Just suck it up and get on with it. Trying to clamor for attention at school is pointless, it just causes more friction and more punishment. I felt very much like you at school, always thought that I was in the right. This attitude made me get singled out for punishment. (I went to a strict Grammar school and we had to wear a very strict uniform) so when summer rolled round and I wasn't wearing my blazer (because it was 30c) and had my shirt out of my trousers, despite being in a crowd of friends all doing the same, it would 99% of the time be a "BELLAMY! HERE PLEASE!" and I'd get disciplined by the head of year (this guy was intimidating as fuck, 6'5" marathon runner, shaved head, would spot you a mile away and still sound like he was shouting at you from 2m). I once got beaten up really badly and I refused to go see the head of year because I knew exactly what would have happened, I would get punished for it. Rumour got around quickly (as they did at school) my tutor told my head of year. I got summoned, a week in isolation, for being beaten up. Awesome

It's just not worth fighting the system. It doesn't work.

[DerekG52]

If the trash was such a big deal, why couldn't the teacher pick it up. What happened to leading by example? It sounds like the teacher was just being a dick.

[Hatta]

I am 100% behind you DNT. You're there to learn, not be a slave. My advice is to drop out, take the GED, and go to community college. Get your AA/AS and you can get into a 4 year school. Once you have a BS, no one will ever care whether you got a real diploma or not. Life is too short to deal with people who have nothing better to do than push around kids. There are alternatives.

I'm assuming here that you're a good student and have no problem learning, only taking orders. If you struggle academically I don't know what to tell you. Otherwise, head directly to the nearest community college. It costs money, but it actually takes less time out of your day than high school, so you can get a job at the same time. You'll still have to follow orders then, but the orders generally have a reason, and you'll be getting paid for it.

[jp1]

My advice is to drop out, take the GED, and go to community college.

Seriously? I hope you are joking.

[Ziggy]

I'll have to disagree with most people in this thread (which I didn't read the entire thread - sorry, 4 pages long) about just obeying to avoid getting in trouble. Your story is complete bullshit, you have every right not to pick up some one else garbage, just as you have every right not to pick up garbage that made its way onto your lawn!

School teachers and aids, etc (especially High School) are power hungry. It's completely not right to ask you to pick up some one else garbage, and it's not even sanitary. If you weren't disrespectful, the teacher/aid had NO right to say anything at all. Also sounds like the other teacher in the office was just backing up the first teacher, which I've seen a LOT.

Here's a tip, have a parent call the school to complain what bullshit the situation is. The school will always back down, they don't want to be in news paper. That's all your parent/guardian would have to say is "My son refused to pick up garbage that he didn't make, which is unsanitary, so he got yelled at by two different teachers and got detention for a week?" If the school doesn't immediately lift your punishment and apologize, which they will, that's all you have to do is threaten to call the school board, news, whatever. It is not your responsibility to pick up garbage. You're there to learn, not bust tables.

Don't just do what you're told because you think you can't win. That's fuck up. You have to stand up for what is right.

Similar story that you can skip if you want: When I was in high school, my lunch table got a bad rap for making trash. OK, maybe we brought it on ourselves. But the janitor decides to but a garbage can right at the end of our table, as if to say "You have no reason NOT to throw away your garbage". I always throw out my shit, and have little patience for bullshit like this. We moved the garbage pale away. I don't need a garbage pale two feet from my face while I'm eating, thank you. They kept moving it back, we kept moving it away.

So finally the lunch aids come over and start giving us shit. They were basically saying, "No, you have to keep this can right here!" So I told them that I don't want garbage right there while I'm trying to eat. My one friend got a little sassy with one of the aids so they were sending him down to the principles office and would no doubt get a detention. I wasn't able to let my friend get a detention of something so stupid, he had every right to be upset. And although he didn't have to be disrespectful, getting a detention because of this situation didn't sit right with me.

So I decided to go down to the principles office with him to defend him. I asked every one at my table to come, and no one even looked at me. So I called them all pussy and we left. Now here's the interesting part, see if it bares any resemblance. As soon as we got to the principle's office, the principle comes out and starts yelling, really bad, at ME! I'm not the one in trouble, I'm going down there to complain about something, and she's yelling at me! So, when something angers me that much I don't hold back. I yelled right back at that bitch. She deserved worse. So eventually she told me I was getting suspended for a week!

So I sit with my friend for a few minutes and I guess some one took the time to explain to the principle that I wasn't there to be reprimanded, I was there to complain about something. Long story short, neither my friend or I got in any trouble (that day). I guess the principle was embarrassed enough.

My point is, she just came out yelling. She didn't even know why. She was just all about the yelling. Sound like your story, how that teacher was just yelling at you. You don't deserve it. It's bullshit! And I can't stress that enough.

[DerekG52]

Ziggy you are dead on. Unfortunately a lot of teachers and administrators think it is their duty to coral and subdue their students rather than teach and respect. It's no surprise on a macro level we have the highest incarceration rate in the world! Everyone gets their rocks off on being a bully of somebody else.

Ziggy - in your personal case, had you gotten suspended, do you think that the 'punishment' would have made you stay in line better? No, you would resent the principal, and resent whatever staff caused you to have to see the principal in the first place. In my case, I was spanked as a kid, sometimes with a belt. Did that make me stay in line better? No, it caused me to resent my father for getting HIS anger out by hitting me. People don't fucking get it.

Since it is a similar topic, spanking is just plain messed up. Besides the fact that studies show it doesn't work, and makes children more violent, it's fucked up to beat your child that a) looks up to you for providing food/shelter and protection and b) they WILL grow up and be able to fight you back or leave you in your elder years.

If you were hit by a teacher, do you think you would do better or worse in their class? Are you more likely to hate that teacher and subsequently slack off? If school leaves a bad taste in your mouth are you more or less likely to be successful in life? The more unsuccessful people we have, the more everyone has to pay to support them. I don't know about you, but I think my taxes are high enough thank you.

[s1mplehumar]

Bring back physical discipline. Teachers have it real bad nowadays.

Seconded.

[dsheinem]

School teachers and aids, etc (especially High School) are power hungry.

You only think this because it is part of their job description to tell you what to do (e.g. homework, class activities, safe comportment in the school, etc.). It seems that you have made the mistake of confusing "care for your future" with "desire to have power over a teenager". I really don't see the appeal in the latter, but the former is the reason that most teachers give as the reason they'd even consider getting into teaching.

Anyway, you seem to have grouped all teachers into one category. Generalizations will get you nowhere in an argument, which you'd know if you paid attention in school. I should have stopped reading your post at this point, but...

principles office

principles office

principle's office

the principle

You quickly confirmed that you obviously weren't paying attention in school...

I yelled right back at that bitch. She deserved worse. So eventually she told me I was getting suspended for a week!

And you are surprised that you got suspended for yelling at the principal? If a superior is yelling at you, yelling back is a sure fire way to escalate the situation and make it worse for you. Again, if you had paid attention in class you may have learned something about effective conflict management (even if the other person is mistaken, is the aggressor, etc.).

I guess the principle was embarrassed enough...My point is, she just came out yelling. She didn't even know why. She was just all about the yelling. Sound like your story, how that teacher was just yelling at you. You don't deserve it. It's bullshit! And I can't stress that enough.

Sorry, but you and DNT both come across in this thread as spoiled, entitled little snots. Even if that's not true, that is more or less how you've represented yourself. Are some high school teachers power hungry and unreasonable? Sure. But even if they are, their students are still of lower status by sheer title alone. Maybe it isn't "fair," but life isn't fair. Part of high school is learning how to effectively deal with this relationship and address the discrepancy in power when conflict arises, and you both seem to have failed that lesson.

Anyway, all this thread really does is make me glad that I don't teach high school students. College has its own problems, but at least I have my huge six figure salary to comfort me at night

(Business professors often make six figures because they could make much more in business and colleges need to attract them. In the liberal arts, we aren't quite as well compensated...)