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marurun
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by marurun Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:36 pm

Exhuminator wrote:
marurun wrote:I don't know that it really had much of an effect on the genre as a whole. There certainly wasn't a rush of clones doing the same thing afterwards.

So were there a rush of clones doing the generational descendant protagonists thing after DQV either? Not to my knowledge.


I don't think DQV or PSIII belong on such a list for that reason. DQV might have other qualifications I dont' know about, but my list doesn't include either. (My still under construction list)
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by pierrot Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:11 pm

Xeogred wrote:I hate Earthbound.

That is the most correct reaction to that game.

marurun wrote:I don't think DQV or PSIII belong on such a list for that reason. DQV might have other qualifications I dont' know about, but my list doesn't include either. (My still under construction list)

DQ V is typically the most revered of the series, in Japan. I've only played through the first dungeon, so I don't have much of an opinion on it, personally. It was the game that was remade for the PS2 in order to test out the game engine for DQ VIII, though. DQ IV was remade for the PS1, but only after the release of VII. Despite the consistently tepid response to VI, it seems like the country is most in love with the Zenethian trilogy. (I think Squeenix was hoping that Yangus might be the next Torneko, but it just didn't stick.)

Also, BoF III toyed with the leap in time bit.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by BoneSnapDeez Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:24 pm

EarthBound seems to be pretty revered. Not everyone "gets" or likes it. I generally refer to it as my third favorite JRPG (or video game, really) behind FFVI and Chrono Trigger. It's brilliant.

PartridgeSenpai wrote:was Earthbound really the first JRPG to take place in a modern setting?


Not even close. For starters, Spy Daisakusen (1982), takes place in a modern setting and it's probably the third or fourth RPG developed in Japan. EarthBound certainly popularized settings beyond fantasy and sci-fi though.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by chuckster Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:23 am

PartridgeSenpai wrote:
chuckster wrote:Not big on JRPGs overall, but I do believe Earthbound deserves a spot. It laid the template for what is one of the best-selling game franchises of all time. I only played it about a year ago, but it was remarkable how much I'd heard about EB without people being more vocal about how much they basically lifted straight out of it for Pokemon Red and Blue. It gets all sorts of credit for being in a modern, more light-hearted setting, which was well-done and unique, but it didn't really influence a lot in the grand scheme. The stamp it leaves on Pokemon is the most important part of it's commercial legacy--Undertale or no--which is so large as to be undeniable.


Can you be more specific? That's a claim I've never heard before, and it's a fairly intriguing one. Other than the fact that they're both in fairly modern settings, I don't see too much in common between the two. In which case, was Earthbound really the first JRPG to take place in a modern setting? 1994 (or I guess 1989 if you wanna go by the first game) just seems like a really late goal post for that landmark.


For me, it's the aesthetic and a lot of the menu and battle UI that seems very similar. Though again, I'm not big on JRPGs overall, so I may just be thinking of standard things across many games, but EB and Red seemed to share so much of the overall feel.

I thought EB was a good game, not great. It was actually the similarities that kept me going (maybe I'm the only one?). As someone hesitant to get into the deep, grinding classics, it's simpler, more casual feel and similarity to Pokemon really recalled the old days with my Gameboy and kept me hooked. I really think, even if it's subconscious, those similarities are a big reason for EB and Mother in general are growing in popularity even past the initial nostalgia bump. Because there's another wave of secondary nostalgia from the late 90's.

I'm not sure if EB was the first modern JRPG setting, but it was unique for what it was. I'm not really advocating it belongs due to being modern or quirky, though that is what it has become known for. I just see it as a big influence as a casual JRPG with mass appeal, that was tweaked into the juggernaut of Pokemon games.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by Exhuminator Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:35 am

pierrot wrote:It was the game that was remade for the PS2 in order to test out the game engine for DQ VIII

Not trying to be a jerk here promise, but do you have a source for this claim? The two engines seem incredibly different. Also Matrix Software developed DQV for PS2, but Level-5 developed DQVIII for PS2. Level-5 is well known for doing their own in-house programming, I'd be surprised if they were willing to work with another studio's engine for a project that big.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by Sarge Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:17 am

I was kinda thinking the same thing. That DQV engine is pretty rough, kind of a budget-feeling game, honestly. DQVIII has a lot more going on, and I suspect it's more likely that Level-5 did most of the work, feeling a bit like their engine in both Dark Cloud 2 and Rogue Galaxy.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by BoneSnapDeez Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:31 am

MrPopo wrote:I'm still trying to process the fact that Bone's list isn't just Ys repeated 26 times.


:lol:

As much as I adore the series it's hard to make a case for anything besides the first two games.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by pierrot Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:02 pm

Exhuminator wrote:[...] Do you have a source for this claim?

Nope, I just remembered it looking a lot more like DQ VIII from the short time I played it. You're right, it only repurposes ArtPiazzas DQ game engine. However, in terms of units sold, it's still the most successful remake of a Dragon Quest game.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by marurun Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:25 pm

OK, I think I'm finally ready to present my horribly flawed list.

Pre-JRPG

Wizardry - As it faltered in the US, Japan adopted it and expanded the series well beyond anything seen here.

Early PC JRPGs

The Dragon and Princess
Bokosuka Wars
Nobunaga's Ambition

The Popular Turning Point

Black Onyx - Accessible RPG that widened the audience for the genre in Japan massively.

Widening of JRPGs

Dragon Slayer
Tower of Druaga - Maybe not really a JRPG, but JRPG adjacent
Ys
Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu
Dragon Quest
Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei
Final Fantasy
Phantasy Star
Dragon Quest III - First (?) example of class change mechanic.
Final Fantasy II - First (?) example of advancing abilities through use.
Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light

16-bits are great

Phantasy Star II - First (?) example of combination attacks.
Tengai Makyou: Ziria - First console CD RPG.
Lunar: Silver Star Story - First example of level scaling enemies.
Secret of Mana
Robotrek - Was probably the most direct mechanical ancestor of Pokemon.
Tactics Ogre

OMG 32-bits is maybe too many, yeah?

Sakura Wars - First (?) combination of RPG and dating sim.
Final Fantasy VII - Mostly for its effect on the RPG market as a result of its high production values. Not necessarily for anything inherent to the game itself.
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Re: Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

by Ack Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:51 am

Do you mean predecessor instead of descendant for Robotrek?
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