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SpikeSlania
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by SpikeSlania Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:14 pm

That is good news. Now it's a waiting game for what will happen first, a programmer making new software for this, or another company fills the void with a better HD alternative :P
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by BoneSnapDeez Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:26 pm

I have a Retron 5. It rules, and runs Genesis games perfectly. Works with original controllers. Runs Master System games via PBC.
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by marlowe221 Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:43 am

BoneSnapDeez wrote:I have a Retron 5. It rules, and runs Genesis games perfectly. Works with original controllers. Runs Master System games via PBC.


Thanks man!

SpikeSlania wrote:That is good news. Now it's a waiting game for what will happen first, a programmer making new software for this, or another company fills the void with a better HD alternative :P


I'll definitely be keeping an eye on that.
Have: Sega Genesis, SNES, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Atari 800XL, PC, N3DS XL, Wii U, GBA, Xbox One

Want: Games!!!
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Jagosaurus
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by Jagosaurus Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:59 pm

racketboy wrote:
Gunstar Green wrote:You'd think the Genesis wouldn't be that difficult considering it's mostly comprised of off the shelf parts. Back in its day there were really solid pirate versions of the console out there. I don't know what I'm talking about so someone can tell me why I'm wrong but I'd think if you could reverse engineer the SNES that the Genesis would be a piece of cake by comparison.


I'm sure part of it is that they may be less demand for a higher-priced Genesis clone.
The NES and SNES units are more expensive than a Genesis model. You can also use HDRetrovision cables on a stock Genesis (and SNES -- at least the Analogue SNES unit is cheaper than the NES) so there's less motivation for me to spend a bunch of a Genesis clone right now.


Keep in mind those cables will only work on a very small percentage of new TVs. Most will not accept 240 over component.

I got really excited for these cables then checked the compatibility list on reddit... it's sad :( . Basically limited to one manufacturer, certain Samsung models IIRC.

Because the main point of this thread was Genesis on a HD set, wanted to bring that up. Of course, they'll look great on a CRT.

Now, you can take from these component cables to a Framemeister D terminal to HDMI, but you'd probably be better off using SCART.

Again, showing there's currently not an easy, accurate Genesis HD option currently.
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by samsonlonghair Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:09 am

Jagosaurus wrote:I got really excited for these cables then checked the compatibility list on reddit... it's sad :( . Basically limited to one manufacturer, certain Samsung models IIRC.

Ouch. :x
Gunstar Green wrote:You'd think the Genesis wouldn't be that difficult considering it's mostly comprised of off the shelf parts. Back in its day there were really solid pirate versions of the console out there. I don't know what I'm talking about so someone can tell me why I'm wrong but I'd think if you could reverse engineer the SNES that the Genesis would be a piece of cake by comparison.

There's just a flood of half-baked solutions on the market that really aren't acceptable. :cry: This is why people go to all the trouble of salvaging twenty-year-old PVMs to play Genesis.
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by samsonlonghair Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:52 am

Pardon my double post. I think this bears relevance.

I just saw another teardown video on Youtube. This one is by Yobebit. This mostly confirms a lot that ETA Prime posted, and adds a couple more details with better shots of the components on the board.. Yoebit confirms that we have 2GB of DDR3 RAM. We also have a whopping SIXTEEN gigabytes of flash storage (More thoughts on that later). Yoebit found that the board can be powered just from a micro-USB cable. Yoebit also found a button on the board that initializes a firmware update! Woot! :mrgreen:

Now a couple of my own thoughts:
• We know how to load custom firmware; we just need someone to write the custom firmware. Fingers crossed we can get stock android on this box soon.
• 2GB of RAM is plenty for our needs. My HTC One M8 runs silky smooth with 2GM of RAM.
• 16GB of flash memory might not seem like much for a smartphone, but it's a whole damn lot for a Sega Genesis. Consider that the entire Sega Genesis worldwide library only takes up 1.1GB, and the Android operating system takes up less than 4GB. The entire Sega Master System Library is only 43 megs. The entire Game Gear library is only 114 megs. I think that the md.emu apk is something like 1 or 2 megs. That leaves tons of extra space. Shoot, Let me do the math...

Android Operating System________3460MB (this number can vary)
Sega Genesis worldwide library_____1100MB
Sega Game Gear library____________114MB
Sega Master System library_________43MB
md.emu.apk_____________________1.8MB
retroarch.apk__________________+65.8MB (can't find the filesize for the libretto cores)
Total________________________=4784.6MB

So, we are only taking up 4.8GB after all is said and done. That should leave room for a few choice Sega CD games, not the whole library, just a few favorites. :mrgreen:
Last edited by samsonlonghair on Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SpikeSlania
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by SpikeSlania Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:49 pm

But here is the next question, does it use an authentic sound chip to make Genesis sounds or does it emulate the sounds? If it tries using an authentic sound chip Sega CD games probably won't sound like you remember them since one of the things Sega did was put a really good sound chip in the Sega CD for some reason to increase the initial cost instead of just making a simple cd drive addon. Other then the sound chip can't remember if there is any other additional hardware the Sega CD added, I think they did so they could atleast fake Mode 7 in the Sonic CD Bonus stages. So I'm not sure if you're idea to put Sega CD games on it would work or not, since I have no idea what AtGames uses for their hardware besides an Android OS

Edit:

Went through the thread and found this. So for someone who doesn't understand hardware specs, what does this mean for the hardware? :P I probably also watch too many videos on youtube of old pcs with different sound chips and cards to understand how modern systems use sound :P

The hardware is a rockchip rk3036. Specs for that chip indicate a Dual-Core Cortex A7 "up to 1.26 GHz" (we don't know yet if it's actually clocked that fast or slower), a Mali-400MP GPU, and DDR3 RAM (Probably 2GB). There is an accessible micro-USB port inside the case. Good hardware altogether, plus we have that cartridge slot, the two 9-pin controller ports, and the Genesis-style case.
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by marurun Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:47 pm

The Sega CD adds a Ricoh chip that provides 8 channels of PCM sound and a second MC68000 cpu running 60% faster than the one in the Genesis. Not too shabby. Oh, and also a graphics chip that can do scaling and rotation.
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by samsonlonghair Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:31 pm

SpikeSlania wrote:But here is the next question, does it use an authentic sound chip to make Genesis sounds or does it emulate the sounds?

It's all emulation from start to finish. The only thing that's remotely authentic is the cartridge port and the controller ports. Those are the only physical components that this machine shares with the real Sega Genesis (and even that much is debatable if someone wanted to get pedantic about it).

SpikeSlania wrote:Went through the thread and found this. So for someone who doesn't understand hardware specs, what does this mean for the hardware? :P I probably also watch too many videos on youtube of old pcs with different sound chips and cards to understand how modern systems use sound :P

The hardware is a rockchip rk3036. Specs for that chip indicate a Dual-Core Cortex A7 "up to 1.26 GHz" (we don't know yet if it's actually clocked that fast or slower), a Mali-400MP GPU, and DDR3 RAM (Probably 2GB). There is an accessible micro-USB port inside the case. Good hardware altogether, plus we have that cartridge slot, the two 9-pin controller ports, and the Genesis-style case.

I wrote that. Pardon me if I was getting a bit too esoteric. Let me break it down...

Rockchip is a Chinese company that makes portable system-on-a-chip hardware. They started in the portable .mp3 player market and then moved into the smartphone and tablet market. The vast majority of smartphones for sale today use Rockchip hardware.

Rockchip released the rk3036 in the fourth quarter of 2014. This is similar to the hardware Rockchip was building for android tablets at the time, but the rk3036 is made for set-top boxes. An example of a device that uses the rk3036 is the Miracast (a chromecast clone).
You can find more details about this system-on-a-chip at Rockchip's official website.
http://www.rock-chips.com/a/en/products ... 4/521.html

You asked about sound chips. Since the rk3036 uses a system-on-a-chip design, the DAC (digital to analog converter) is built in. In other words, there is no independent sound processor here. Everything is incorporated.

So how can we hope to get that beautiful Genesis sound? Pure emulation. Imagine a virtual machine inside the rk3036. This Virtual machine has a Motorola 68000, a Zilog z80, a Yamaha YM2612 FM synth, a Texas Instruments SN76489 PSG, and every other chip that makes the Genesis tick. The real-world rk3036 reads the ROM data from the cartridge and passes that data to the virtual Sega Genesis. The Virtual Sega Genesis, in turn, passes all the audio and video output back to the rk3036 which then sends that information to your speakers and your TV screen.

You follow me so far? 8)

The problem we have with at@games Flashback HD currently isn't a hardware problem; it's a software problem. They failed to accurately emulate the Sega Genesis. Remember that virtual Sega Genesis? Well, at@games didn't cross their "t"s, didn't dot their "i"s and they forgot to carry the one. In other words, they overlooked some small but crucial aspect of emulating Sega Genesis audio. The Devil's in the details. :twisted:

Emulating Genesis sound correctly isn't impossible. We have had numerous rock-solid Genesis emulators on PC for fifteen years or more now. The tricky part is that it takes a BUNCH of man hours to refine an emulator that well. If an enthusiast (or group of enthusiasts) spend years of their lives steadily improving a Genesis emulator for free, then more power to them. If you were trying to run a profitable business, you might have a hard time justifying the cost of actually paying a team of developers to code a good emulator for you. That's how we end up with half-assed emulation. The business can only expend so much resources on product development, and they need to get their product on store shelves before Christmas. :wink:

Now that at@games has released their product, enthusiasts have the opportunity to run one of the extant GOOD Sega emulators on the Rockchip hardware. Since this hardware isn't so terribly different from an android tablet, someone should be able to run stock android operating system on there. If someone can run stock Android on this hardware, then the battle is practically won. It's easy to find Genesis emulators on Android. :mrgreen:
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Re: Best Genesis HD Clone Console?

by Jagosaurus Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:58 am

samsonlonghair wrote:It's easy to find Genesis emulators on Android. :mrgreen:


When I was getting into emu on Android everything I read on the Genesis side (and recommendations here) all pointed towards the $5 MD.emu program. Is there really a decent, free Sega emu on Android currently?

I'm a huge fan of Kfusion/Kega on PC. I'm emulated the mess out of Genesis, SMS, & GG (which are all rock solid) but only got into Sega CD a bit. I have Snatcher running fine but recently saw Lunar runs with voices not synchronized to FMV. Even on that side with all the years of efforts, there are some hiccups.

I currently have a dedicated Windows 7 PC running emus for each system. Once that guy becomes end of life and the newest emulators move to a version of Direct X not supported on that box/OS... I'll likely be strictly Android emulation as you can get a decent box with a small footprint for under $100 versus a new PC. That said, this topic interest me on multiple fronts:
- Digging into Sega CD emu more
- Following Android emu options
- Smaller physical emu box versus my current tower PC to TV option
- Reliable Genesis HDMI out options
- General nerd out 8)
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