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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:31 pm
by marlowe221
The frustrating thing is that Sega couldn't seem to stick with a design - they just couldn't leave well enough alone!

I totally understand releasing a cut down version of a console late in the generation that has lower production costs, but if you look at all the motherboard revisions Sega had umpteen different versions of the Genesis out there by the time it was over with.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:33 pm
by Tanooki
Yup it was the start of their failing, a good bit can be blamed on the US branch not having any testicles either if you think back to warnings about this or that and the Japanese just doing it anyway. Had they kept the Genesis as is (or like Gamecube just modded the plugs in the back) it would have helped even if the guts were smaller. We really didn't need 2 sets of 32X harnesses. Hell we didn't need the 32X either if they weren't going to just stick with it. 32X or the SCD not both, it destroyed their credibility, and then the Saturn being bitched by the Sony beast really burned them beyond repair.

NO real need for me though to chime in again much on audio, but all those other posts nailed it as did that link to the sega-16 forums I think it was. The bass is better and running that through some other system won't fix it unfortunately. The core guts of that one as people base it down to, is just how it was meant to sound,and most model2 and the model3 units just sound flatter/more muffled or something instead as the parts got cheaper and scaled back. I would have really liked to have found a model2 with the right audio on it, but as noted too hard to do, excessively so through ebay, so I didn't attempt it.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:52 pm
by marurun
Ziggy587 wrote:I've heard that the sound channels are mixed differently, as in, the levels of each channel aren't the same between the two models. So the argument "it's not how it's suppose to sound" has some weight, being that you could argue the model 1 Genesis was the original model and all subsequent revisions altered it.

The argument that I hear most though is that the model 1 has more bass than the (good) model 2. Some people say, "So just turn the bass up a little." If you care that much about audio, you have a sound system, right? But a few people still say, no, turning the bass up still doesn't correct the different mixing the model 2 has.

But yeah, I agree, the difference IS there but it's not anything to fret over. I'm just pointing out the argument that I typically heard when I was trying to choose myself.



I have read several very detailed analyses of the various Genesis models, and while the original model 1 is considered to have the best sound, it is still imperfect, and early revisions can actually flake out on loud sounds because of an over-driven pre-amp. In short, there is no "perfect" Genesis. Every model has some sort of issue. You just have to decide which issues you can live with and which ones you can't. My "good" model 2 is great, and isn't compromised in any areas that bother me.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:59 pm
by marlowe221
Well, I just bought a Model 2 VA3 (3/4 motherboard) on eBay. The search was surprisingly easy!

This guy knows his stuff and the listing included pictures of the circuit board that showed the "VA3" printed on the PCB as well as a picture showing the Sony CXA-1645 video encoder.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:09 am
by pierrot
marlowe221 wrote:That said, I know people love them and maybe the capacitor concern is overblown?

I feel it is, to an extent. I was actually just talking with some people about this last week (not in relation to video game hardware specifically) and anecdotally, the story goes that the formula for producing electrolytic capacitance was stolen, and poorly reproduced, leading to batches of inferior electrolytic capacitors. However, no companies have wanted to admit to using poor caps, so the quantities and sources associated with them aren't really known. I believe South Korean companies are seen as the prime suspects. This may be based on somewhat outdated information, and I haven't researched it personally, so I don't know that it should necessarily assuage your fears.

Personally, I have a US and JP non-TMSS model 1, and a 3/4 board model 2. The model 1s get the most use. I recapped the JP model 1 some time ago for some issues that really weren't cap related, and nothing really changed with it. I figured it wouldn't, but the thing with electrolytic capacitors is that their labeled values are typical of fairly high capacitance. In the 0.1 to 220 mic range, applications will vary, but you're often looking at the ability to block DC with coupling or bypass capacitors, circuit delays when powering on, or lessening the effects of ground bounce and other high frequency noise on ICs (these are probably SMCs, though). If they aren't being used to set up precise time constants or filters in RC circuits, the loss of capacitance over time is probably not going to be catastrophic. The main concern would be the damage the leaking chemicals can do to the PCB. Distressed capacitors tend to be noticeable, so a good look at the PCB could potentially tell you if you would have any immediate worries. At this point, I'm hard pressed to believe consoles with capacitors from less than perfect sources aren't going to be showing their colors already.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:41 am
by Ziggy587
marlowe221 wrote:Well, I just bought a Model 2 VA3 (3/4 motherboard) on eBay. The search was surprisingly easy!

This guy knows his stuff and the listing included pictures of the circuit board that showed the "VA3" printed on the PCB as well as a picture showing the Sony CXA-1645 video encoder.


Congrats! That's the model 2 revision I have as well.

Because the Genesis has piss poor composite video (even the "good" models have very blurry composite video) and you said you're not one to mod your consoles yourself, there's this nifty cable if you weren't already aware of it...

http://www.hdretrovision.com/genesis/

This cable takes the RGB output from the console and converts it to YPbPr component video. It's completely plug and play, use it just like any other standard AV cable.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:54 am
by ElkinFencer10
Ziggy587 wrote:
marlowe221 wrote:Well, I just bought a Model 2 VA3 (3/4 motherboard) on eBay. The search was surprisingly easy!

This guy knows his stuff and the listing included pictures of the circuit board that showed the "VA3" printed on the PCB as well as a picture showing the Sony CXA-1645 video encoder.


Congrats! That's the model 2 revision I have as well.

Because the Genesis has piss poor composite video (even the "good" models have very blurry composite video) and you said you're not one to mod your consoles yourself, there's this nifty cable if you weren't already aware of it...

http://www.hdretrovision.com/genesis/

This cable takes the RGB output from the console and converts it to YPbPr component video. It's completely plug and play, use it just like any other standard AV cable.

I can vouch for the incredible quality of these cables and wrote a review about them not long ago.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:08 am
by marlowe221
ElkinFencer10 wrote:
Ziggy587 wrote:
marlowe221 wrote:Well, I just bought a Model 2 VA3 (3/4 motherboard) on eBay. The search was surprisingly easy!

This guy knows his stuff and the listing included pictures of the circuit board that showed the "VA3" printed on the PCB as well as a picture showing the Sony CXA-1645 video encoder.


Congrats! That's the model 2 revision I have as well.

Because the Genesis has piss poor composite video (even the "good" models have very blurry composite video) and you said you're not one to mod your consoles yourself, there's this nifty cable if you weren't already aware of it...

http://www.hdretrovision.com/genesis/

This cable takes the RGB output from the console and converts it to YPbPr component video. It's completely plug and play, use it just like any other standard AV cable.

I can vouch for the incredible quality of these cables and wrote a review about them not long ago.


Sadly my CRT does not have component inputs.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:32 am
by Ziggy587
ElkinFencer10 wrote:I can vouch for the incredible quality of these cables and wrote a review about them not long ago.


I can understand why some people question the price, since at first glance they just look like ordinary AV cables. What those people have to understand is that to get the same results you'd have to buy an RGB SCART cable, plus a SCART-to-YPbPr transcoder (which will use a wall wart power adapter), plus a SCART audio breakout adapter, plus component video cables and stereo audio RCA cables. For about the same price or less, you can get the HD Retrovision cable, which will be less hassle and less clutter, and is fine tuned for the specific application.

Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:40 am
by Gunstar Green
marlowe221 wrote:The frustrating thing is that Sega couldn't seem to stick with a design - they just couldn't leave well enough alone!

I totally understand releasing a cut down version of a console late in the generation that has lower production costs, but if you look at all the motherboard revisions Sega had umpteen different versions of the Genesis out there by the time it was over with.


Keep in mind Sega was using a lot of off the shelf parts so they were working with what they had available depending on cost. They also had manufacturing plants in a few different countries.