Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces

[Reprise]

Just completed it

There's 30 stages.

[noiseredux]

shit, I forgot Forces was already out.

[Reprise]

shit, I forgot Forces was already out.

Nah, it's out tomorrow. It's just a lot of retailers that broke street release.

There's a day one patch tomorrow. Although I can't possibly see what the patch 'fixes', as technically the game runs absolutely fine and I didn't encounter and glitches. That said, I do know the patch does add 'Episode Shadow', which adds a few new stages where you play as Shadow, as well as providing the option of playing as Shadow in any of the modern Sonic stages. There's also a rumour that it adds

Supersonic into the game. Spoiler alert: He's not in Forces, at least pre-patch.

[noiseredux]

Oh, gotcha.

So here's the thing... Even though I'm a big Sonic fan, I'm actually finding myself more interested in Super Lucky's Tale, also out tomorrow. Hmm. Not sure which to play first now though.

EDIT: Well, if I was already leaning towards Lucky's Tale, the fact that it's $10 cheaper than Sonic Forces helps as well...

[noiseredux]

well, reviews of Super Lucky's Tale seem pretty blah. I'm still interested to play it, just in less of a rush I think.

What's the verdict on Forces then? The trailer certainly looks good.

[Reprise]

What's the verdict on Forces then? The trailer certainly looks good.

I don't know if many reviews are out, as review copies weren't sent out until today. The reviews that were posted broke the embargo. Sega claimed the embargo was because of a day one patch, but I can tell you now that was bullshit, because the 'day one patch' is the same patch I applied four days ago...

General consensus though? I'd say as mixed as most 3D Sonic games not called Generations or Colors. A lot of the mainstream press will probably shit on it. Personally, as a 3D Sonic fan, I enjoyed it. It's basically just the gameplay from Colors and Generations with the avatar gameplay added in, which isn't really that different from the Sonic gameplay anyways. Presentation and story is a bit meh. I enjoyed the darker tone, even if it is a bit ridiculous. The game is reasonably short. 30 stages long. But there's tonnes of extra and secret stages to unlock. There's also the red rings to find and there's missions to complete. Plus they launched free Shadow DLC today, which contains 3 stages playing as Shadow.

The level design and art design is mixed. There's a lot of very samey feeling stages, which means there isn't much variety. Gameplay-wise, it plays exactly like Generations though. It's fun, but flawed. I don't think it's as good as Generations, but that game had nostalgia on its side.

Polygon gave it 5/10. That's the only review I've seen so far.

[Juan Aguacate]

Frankly, I'm enjoying it more than Mania. I don't care it that makes me sound crazy. Mania just couldn't outdo Sonic and Knuckles for me as best 2d Sonic game. Mania has terrible bosses, the crappy special stages from Sonic CD, and a lesser soundtrack than Sonic 3 and Knuckles. It's a game made by amateurs. Plus, I found Mania too self indulgent and fan servicy, like that stupid Mean Bean Machine boss fight. Tacky.

Forces is a more humble and sincere game than Mania and the stages are a lot of fun. Forces is also, for better or worse, a bit more accessible than Generations, but is clearly taking a lot of inspiration from it. Modern Sonic stages give me what a want, which is spectacle and the feeling of moving at mach 10 speed (honestly, you can almost feel skin peeling off your face in some levels). Yet, Sonic feels easier to control at high speed than he did in Generations. The avatar stages are fun, though a bit awkward to play at first and a bit slower paced than modern Sonic stages. Classic Sonic levels are just that, classic 2d Sonic. I've only played one team based stage so far, but it was fun with Sonic and your avatar double boosting through enemies while the catchy, pop vocals pump you up.

I was initially meh on the avatar thing, but I quite like the look of my avatar and I like having a Sonic game where he's not the sole hero. And frankly, being a mute makes your avatar less annoying than other Sonic sidekicks we've seen over the years.

People say the game is short, but I think it has more levels than Generations, and with collectibles, S ranks, secret levels, EX levels, speed run challenges for some stages (with strict times) and a sort of points based medal system, I think there's enough content for 40 dollars. Unfortunately, most gamers don't do that kind of stuff. They'll blow through a game ignoring all that extra content than complain that the game is too short and easy. Idiots. People have pointed out that many of the stages are rather short too, but as a retro gamer I'm not put off by short levels as that's how games used to be way back when. Today, people want everything bigger and longer. Bleh. Less is more I say. Forces is easy to pick up and play, blow through a stage, than put it down again. It would have made for a good Vita game if they could have done a downgraded port.

I'm at a 7 out of 10 that is gradually inching towards an 8 from what I've played so far. Oh, and so far the story has been fine. Not too serious, not too silly. It feels right. Sonic has some cheesy lines, but they're what you'd expect from a character born in the 90s when Bart Simpson was considered cool.

[Reprise]

Eh, I don't know. I'll leave aside your opinions on Mania, which I don't really agree with, but we're all entitled to have different opinions; but I will say that I went back to Generations yesterday to compare and honestly there's no way Forces really compares. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a defender of Forces from the hyperbole that is the internet and contemporary, mainstream gaming media ("it's not AAA or Indie, nor is it super amazing, therefore it is shit and must die!").

It's definitely a fun game and I agree with you for the most part, but the level design and art direction is a little too safe for me and yes, they are a bit too short. Some are pure cock teases. You feel you're having a good time and then the stage just abruptly ends. Generation's levels just have far more depth and interesting things going on. For example, compare Green Hill Zone. On Generations it's really multilayered and actually, even in the modern Act, it's built in a style very reminiscent of the classic Genesis/MD games, with vertical high, middle and low tracks to explore. The scenery also feels far more dynamic and interesting, as are the numerous set pieces that pop up. I also prefer the stages being a bit longer. Of the stages I played through of Generations, the average time it took me to beat them was between 2 and 4 minutes. Forces, on the other hand, the vast majority of the stages are in the 1-2 minute range. Forces' opening Green Hill on the other hand is far more 'on rails' and linear and although it does have a few alternative paths, they're really not that interesting and it's usually just a way to say to the player "oh hey, here's a red ring. Congratulations" before sending them back to the main path. And it can be beaten in a minute.

That said, the game is a lot of fun and absolutely has enough content to justify the 40 dollar price. You're right, that there's plenty of replayability and extra stuff to do. I actually really enjoy the secret and extra stages that concentrate on a single gimmick and the SOS missions are a nice challenge. And the main story isn't much if any shorter than Generations or Colors, so I agree with you on that point too.

[Juan Aguacate]

Eh, I don't know. I'll leave aside your opinions on Mania, which I don't really agree with, but we're all entitled to have different opinions; but I will say that I went back to Generations yesterday to compare and honestly there's no way Forces really compares. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a defender of Forces from the hyperbole that is the internet and contemporary, mainstream gaming media ("it's not AAA or Indie, nor is it super amazing, therefore it is shit and must die!").

It's definitely a fun game and I agree with you for the most part, but the level design and art direction is a little too safe for me and yes, they are a bit too short. Some are pure cock teases. You feel you're having a good time and then the stage just abruptly ends. Generation's levels just have far more depth and interesting things going on. For example, compare Green Hill Zone. On Generations it's really multilayered and actually, even in the modern Act, it's built in a style very reminiscent of the classic Genesis/MD games, with vertical high, middle and low tracks to explore. The scenery also feels far more dynamic and interesting, as are the numerous set pieces that pop up. I also prefer the stages being a bit longer. Of the stages I played through of Generations, the average time it took me to beat them was between 2 and 4 minutes. Forces, on the other hand, the vast majority of the stages are in the 1-2 minute range. Forces' opening Green Hill on the other hand is far more 'on rails' and linear and although it does have a few alternative paths, they're really not that interesting and it's usually just a way to say to the player "oh hey, here's a red ring. Congratulations" before sending them back to the main path. And it can be beaten in a minute.

That said, the game is a lot of fun and absolutely has enough content to justify the 40 dollar price. You're right, that there's plenty of replayability and extra stuff to do. I actually really enjoy the secret and extra stages that concentrate on a single gimmick and the SOS missions are a nice challenge. And the main story isn't much if any shorter than Generations or Colors, so I agree with you on that point too.

I'm pretty harsh on Mania, probably more than I should be, but it kind of annoys me how Mania keeps getting effusive praise from everyone while Forces, which really isn't all that bad is getting the usual mean spirited treatment that most 3D Sonic games get with videos all over youtube trolling the game and some absurdly low scores from most reviewers. .

I just leave Mania out of this and not mention it again. Forces really is a fun game. And while I don't think it's flawless, you have some issues with it, and I actually have some nitpicks of my own, but hardly any Sonic game is perfect. I feel like modern Sonic games are being held up to a ridiculous standard, at least in the West anyway. Famitsu gave it a pretty good score. The game looks great. The soundtrack is really great. It controls well. Some people are complaining about the homing attack. Personally, I found it more reliable and responsive than any other 3D Sonic game I've played. Forces is the first time I've played a 3D Sonic and NOT found myself bitching about the homing attack. And the story is decent by Sonic game standards.

I mean, clearly some effort went into making this game. So I don't know why people are hating on it

And of course, the avatar thing is being made fun of by some people. To which I just go, "why is Sonic the only game that actually gets hate for having a create a character feature?". Hello double standards. It's not like you don't get to play as Sonic anymore, he's still in the game. And honestly, the player avatar has one of the best levels in the game IMO with the Metropolis stage, probably one of the most epic Sonic levels ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM-cv7lvUZg

It's not all bad though, Jim Sterling likes it and there's are few positive let's plays you can find on youtube after you sift through all the, "It's another shitty Sonic game" troll videos. I actually wonder if some of the other hated Sonic games are as bad as I've heard, or if they're fun games like Forces that just got unfairly trashed.

[ElkinFencer10]

I really enjoyed Forces. I'll probably post my review tomorrow or Thursday in the Games Beaten thread.