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pierrot
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by pierrot Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:41 am

Bradcap1 wrote:
CD AGES wrote:
Xboxsegafan187 wrote:Yeah I second that. The Saturn Capcom fighting games are and is the superior of the two when comparing them to their Playstation Counterparts.


For the majority, yes. But not all...


I read your review of MSH awhile back and meant to contact you sooner. I did some testing Saturn MSH without a ram cart, with an Action Replay 4 in 1, with an official 4Mb RAM cart, and with an official 1Mb RAM cart. With the AR and 4Mb cart the game does indeed glitch and slowdown as you report. But with the 1Mb cart the game runs smooth with the extra frames of animation. Thought you would want to know.
It seems that 3Mb ram mode in options refers to 2Mb of internal ram plus 1Mb from the cart. It's also been reported that the AR actually only functions in 4Mb mode which would explain this glitch.
Please bear in mind that I'm using a US copy of MSH on a US Saturn.
One additional detail, you have to let the Capcom intro screen run its course prior to hitting start or the cart will not be recognized. Go to the options screen to verify that the cart is detected and 3Mb mode is on.


That is fantastic information, and I'm surprised I hadn't considered it before. I had always just thought of SNK conversions that require the official 1MB card to run smoothly. I really need to get an official 1MB now.
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Reprise
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by Reprise Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:26 pm

I don't really collect for the Saturn much anymore. It started getting too pricey and I have most of the games I ever wanted.

Here's my list:

Assault Suit Leynos 2
Bulk Slash
Burning Rangers
Christmas Nights
D
Dark Savior
Daytona USA
Dragon Force
Enemy Zero
Fighters Megamix
Grandia
Guardian Heroes
Manx TT SuperBike
Metal Slug: Super Vehicle-001
Nights into Dreams
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Sega Rally Championship
Sega Worldwide Soccer '97
Shining Force III
Shining Force III Scenario 1
Shining Wisdom
Sonic Jam
Sonic R
Soviet Strike
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Theme Park
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
Virtua Cop 2
Virtua Fighter 2
Worms
X-Men: Children of the Atom
Own: Sega Mega Drive, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast, Playstation One, Playstation 2, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, PS Vita, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Nintendo Gamecube, Nintendo Wii U, Nintendo 3DS, Nintendo Switch, OUYA.

My gaming blog: https://366gamestoplay.wordpress.com

PSN ID: Anesthetize666
Nintendo Switch ID: SW-8077-5145-0328
Twitter: https://twitter.com/366GamesToPlay
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CD AGES
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by CD AGES Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:16 pm

Bradcap1 wrote:
CD AGES wrote:
Xboxsegafan187 wrote:Yeah I second that. The Saturn Capcom fighting games are and is the superior of the two when comparing them to their Playstation Counterparts.


For the majority, yes. But not all...


I read your review of MSH awhile back and meant to contact you sooner. I did some testing Saturn MSH without a ram cart, with an Action Replay 4 in 1, with an official 4Mb RAM cart, and with an official 1Mb RAM cart. With the AR and 4Mb cart the game does indeed glitch and slowdown as you report. But with the 1Mb cart the game runs smooth with the extra frames of animation. Thought you would want to know.
It seems that 3Mb ram mode in options refers to 2Mb of internal ram plus 1Mb from the cart. It's also been reported that the AR actually only functions in 4Mb mode which would explain this glitch.
Please bear in mind that I'm using a US copy of MSH on a US Saturn.
One additional detail, you have to let the Capcom intro screen run its course prior to hitting start or the cart will not be recognized. Go to the options screen to verify that the cart is detected and 3Mb mode is on.


I tested MSH with an official 1MB RAM cart (tested the game with every variation of the cart as a matter of fact). The game still runs like junk compared to the PSX port. Also, I don't mention any glitching in my comparison review. Just nasty load times, missing SFX, wonky speed, Re-looped soundtrack, lack of options etc etc.
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by foxhound1022 Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:07 pm

It still eludes me as to why this port is so bad, yet both the Vs. titles on Saturn are just excellent.
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by Bradcap1 Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:37 pm

CD AGES wrote:I tested MSH with an official 1MB RAM cart (tested the game with every variation of the cart as a matter of fact). The game still runs like junk compared to the PSX port. Also, I don't mention any glitching in my comparison review. Just nasty load times, missing SFX, wonky speed, Re-looped soundtrack, lack of options etc etc.


Perhaps your console was not detecting the cart? The cart slots on Saturns are notoriously finicky. An easy test to see if 3Mb mode is working properly is to use Juggernaut's standing light kick. If the 3Mb mode is active there will be extra animation frames indicating comic book style motion. The animated frames and speed are quite enhanced when using Juggernaut vs Blackheart. It's pretty much night and day.
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pierrot
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by pierrot Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:10 pm

I think CD is referring more to the slowdown and longer load times than missing animations while in 3mb mode. Did you encounter greater degrees of slowdown with the 1MB card, as opposed to turning 3mb mode off?
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by CD AGES Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:09 pm

foxhound1022 wrote:It still eludes me as to why this port is so bad, yet both the Vs. titles on Saturn are just excellent.

You have to keep in mind that MSH was built to run on default Saturn Hardware without the use of RAM expansion Carts to play the game. The "3MB mode" in MSH is simply a feature and nothing more (this is apparent considering the overall result of the game with a RAM Cart enabled to activate "3MB mode" will result in sacrificed gamespeed and loadtimes simply just for additional frames of animation being restored). Xmen Vs. SF and MSH Vs. SF both REQUIRE expansion carts (4MB to be precise) to play. They wont play without it.

The real question is why the SAT version is even more inferior to the PSX version (and trust me it is!). Was it perhaps that each port was handled by different devs internally at Capcom (or even externally!?). Was it that at this point in time Capcom perhaps began to put more focus and priority on PSX ports over the SAT? Or was it simply just that Capcom started learning how to work around the PSX hardware limitations with 2D design? (Regardless of, Alpha 3 on the PSX was a pretty damn solid effort and their method to get the most out of the system by using 3D polygonal graphics on the hit Sprites was rather brilliant if you ask me). Also, keep in mind that while both games were set to be released on the same day, the PSX port was delayed of an additional month or two before hitting store shelves. What happened there :?:

Bradcap1 wrote:Perhaps your console was not detecting the cart? The cart slots on Saturns are notoriously finicky. An easy test to see if 3Mb mode is working properly is to use Juggernaut's standing light kick. If the 3Mb mode is active there will be extra animation frames indicating comic book style motion. The animated frames and speed are quite enhanced when using Juggernaut vs Blackheart. It's pretty much night and day.

You REALLY don't seem to understand my issue(s) with the game whatsoever. Have you actually read my comparison review????
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39800

Trust me, I know exactly when 3MB is On. It's as simple as having the feature appear on the options menu and being able to turn it OFF on ON on said option screen. There is a much simpler way to check if the mode is indeed functional during actual gameplay. My main character Spider Man has a breathing animation during his crouching position in the CPS II Arcade version. This incredibly small attention to detail was understandably cut in both console ports. With the 3MB mode ON, it is restored to him. Yes! The animated frames of animation that are restored as a result of playing the game with a RAM Cart do enhance the game in a visual sense. NO speed is still awful, with or with out RAM Cart(s) used. More importantly, loadtimes get ridiculously longer.

pierrot wrote:I think CD is referring more to the slowdown and longer load times than missing animations while in 3mb mode.

YES.
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by Bradcap1 Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:26 am

@CD Ages
Wow. I have read your comparison. However, it is evident that you haven't read my comments. You only mention the Action Replay in your review. Based on a discussion on another Forum I did some testing and got results I thought you would find interesting. I have no idea why you've taken a defensive tone and need to make snarky remarks.
To recap what I said:
1. With the 1Mb cart the game speed is much improved when playing as Juggernaut vs Blackheart. I tested this match because it is recognized by most I've talked to as being problematic w/o a cart.
2. With the 1Mb cart the extra frames of animation are there.

What I did not say:
1. That this game is arcade perfect.
2. That this version is better than the PS1 version.

And yes I already mentioned checking for 3Mb mode at the options screen in my first post. Now take a breath and relax. No one is attacking you here. We're talking about 15 year old Saturn games here. A subject that maybe 100 people on the face of the Earth actually care about.
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by CD AGES Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:03 pm

Bradcap1 wrote:@CD Ages
Wow. I have read your comparison. However, it is evident that you haven't read my comments. You only mention the Action Replay in your review. Based on a discussion on another Forum I did some testing and got results I thought you would find interesting. I have no idea why you've taken a defensive tone and need to make snarky remarks.
To recap what I said:
1. With the 1Mb cart the game speed is much improved when playing as Juggernaut vs Blackheart. I tested this match because it is recognized by most I've talked to as being problematic w/o a cart.
2. With the 1Mb cart the extra frames of animation are there.

What I did not say:
1. That this game is arcade perfect.
2. That this version is better than the PS1 version.

And yes I already mentioned checking for 3Mb mode at the options screen in my first post. Now take a breath and relax. No one is attacking you here. We're talking about 15 year old Saturn games here. A subject that maybe 100 people on the face of the Earth actually care about.


Yes I most certainly did read your post which is I asked where in the world did you get game "Glitching" from?. I NEVER said you mentioning 1 and 2, I was talking to "foxhound1022" regarding this. Such statements I expressed to him have nothing to do with what you have expressed about the game so please don't get it twisted.

Yes. I mentioned the AR cart in my review, But I have done testing with all RAM Carts and even both regions (US, JPN) of MSH. The game performs identically when running the game with any RAM CART that will allow you to run the game in 3MB mode.

Now, lets get this clear right now. I am not on the defensive about your comments. I'm just laying down facts, nothing more, which i find paramount in doing considering a good chunk of those 100 people you mentioned are grossly misinformed about the game and the quality of the port on the Saturn, especially when compared to its PSX brethren.
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Re: How is your Saturn gaming going?

by Bradcap1 Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:02 pm

CD AGES wrote:Now, lets get this clear right now. I am not on the defensive about your comments. I'm just laying down facts, nothing more, which i find paramount in doing considering a good chunk of those 100 people you mentioned are grossly misinformed about the game and the quality of the port on the Saturn, especially when compared to its PSX brethren.


Again, WOW.
I'm sorry I ever tried to reach out to you. I won't make the mistake of letting that happen again. I'm also sorry to inform you that like many out there on forums like these you make the mistake of confusing fact with your opinion.
If you don't see the improvement in slowdown when using the 1Mb cart vs without during the Juggernaut vs Blackheart match you should probably stop reviewing games as you are obviously unqualified to do so.
Have a good one.
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